I'm ready to fire Lickliter now

[JRHawk_X]

I don't like what I am seeing. I see a lot of stiffs coming in. We are light years from ever competing again. We need someone who will recruit athletes.

[MikeyJoe]

I'll agree that trusting Lickliter requires putting quite a bit of faith in his "system", because it doesn't look great at the moment.

[JRHawk_X]

Two words for you: Barry Collier

[FrankDrebin]

Really? Stiffs?

I agree that we aren't recruiting like Ravelling right now, but you have a guy in Gatens who is top-100 recruit, and a possible Mr. Basketball for the state of Minnesota in your class.

[TH1974]

Did you ever look at Mike Kryzezeschezchecjhi's record at Duke his first few years?

[Jack 10]

Really? Stiffs?

I agree that we aren't recruiting like Ravelling right now, but you have a guy in Gatens who is top-100 recruit, and a possible Mr. Basketball for the state of Minnesota in your class.
I don't think you can call Gatens a Lick recruit. He committed to Alford. JR has a point... none of Lick's recruits have anymore than mid-major offers.

[FrankDrebin]

No worse than the last regime...

[Jack 10]

No worse than the last regime...
Oh... ok

[JRHawk_X]

You can't count guys like Gatens or Bruner or Horner as recruits in the same way you do a guy from the Chicago Public League. They are good players, but they would have come to Iowa for almost any coach.

I am distrubed that we will have NO big players around really after Cyrus Tate leaves.

[FrankDrebin]

No worse than the last regime...
Oh... ok

I am not trying to say that it makes it acceptable, Jack. I guess in my mind Lickliter deserves more than one year. Some of the anger regarding recruiting classes I haven't seen for some time, and I don't know what make this class any worse than the last few of Alfords.

If the next class is also a bunch of "stiffs", and there is no improvement on the floor next year, I'll probably jump right in with you and JrHawks X in your complaints.

[The Game]

I don't like what I am seeing. I see a lot of stiffs coming in. We are light years from ever competing again. We need someone who will recruit athletes.

How are they stiffs?

Did you know that AJ Graves was a 2-star recruit coming out of HS? Did you know that their other star, Mike Green, was a one star recruit coming out of HS?

If you want to give up on Lickliter after one season, fine, but don't come back on the wagon when Iowa basketball comes back to life.

[SL]

I am distrubed that we will have NO big players around really after Cyrus Tate leaves.

Are you forgetting about Cole?

[Jack 10]

No worse than the last regime...
Oh... ok

I am not trying to say that it makes it acceptable, Jack. I guess in my mind Lickliter deserves more than one year. Some of the anger regarding recruiting classes I haven't seen for some time, and I don't know what make this class any worse than the last few of Alfords.

If the next class is also a bunch of "stiffs", and there is no improvement on the floor next year, I'll probably jump right in with you and JrHawks X in your complaints.
I agree Lick deserves more than a year. I'm not really complaining yet, but just concerned that all six of his recruits don't have any "major" offers.

[HawkLax6]

I think Aaron Fuller is Arizona's basketball player of the year and I guess Lute and Co are starting to sniff around him trying to get him to change his mind.

[hawkstud44]

Fire Lickliter now? Wow... Give the guy a chance.

[Azzhole]

You are a f'ing retard!

[AmesHawk]

JR, I think you're a little to itchy with the trigger finger on this one. At least let him put his own players on the floor for a year or two.

[JRHawk_X]

Watching the tournament changed my thinking some. We need athletes. Not 6-9 outside players who can't drive the ball.

[The Game]

Watching the tournament changed my thinking some. We need athletes. Not 6-9 outside players who can't drive the ball.

I'll agree with you there.

Watching Louisville play in the tournament make me think we're not even close to where the fans want them to be.

[FrankDrebin]

It took you guys watching the tournament to understand that?

[L. Wade Childress]

tucker would have had big ten offers and fuller will likely end up with pac 10 offers

[Crazy Hawk]

Bruner


Who?

[iowahawkeyess]

I don't like what I am seeing. I see a lot of stiffs coming in. We are light years from ever competing again. We need someone who will recruit athletes.

You are insane.

[jd10]

What iowahawkeyess said.

Also, I think Tucker is going to be really, really good.

[JRHawk_X]

Now he throws out the best player we had...a guy who played here for 3 years, played hurt a good part of last year.

I don't care if they were a perfect fit or not...this is shitty by Lickliter...The guy keeps sinking in my eyes.

[hawkstud44]

he didn't kicked tony off the team. He told him that his mins would diminish if he wasn't going to play the game the right way.

IF you are are going to believe a 20 year old kid over Lick.... you got some issues.

[JRHawk_X]

Freeman has been here 2 more years than Lickliter. Why didn't Lickliter say anything? He isn't really denying it very hard.

[hawkstud44]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media. Freeman choose to take the bad road out of town. It will catch up to him when coaches call and ask Lickliter about the situation, unless it's Alford of course.

[PipeDaddy]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media.

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.

It sucks for Tony - but personally I'm glad that there will be some semblance of a system at Iowa instead of the hodgepodge "system" that Alford had.

[Crazy Hawk]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media.

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.

It sucks for Tony - but personally I'm glad that there will be some semblance of a system at Iowa instead of the hodgepodge "system" that Alford had.

To this day, I still don't know what Alford's system was.

[Jack 10]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media.

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.

It sucks for Tony - but personally I'm glad that there will be some semblance of a system at Iowa instead of the hodgepodge "system" that Alford had.

To this day, I still don't know what Alford's system was.
What is Lickliter's ?

[The Game]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media.

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.


Yeah, Indiana isn't stockpiled full of basketball talent.

[Jim]

What is Lickliter's ?[/QUOTE]

The Butler Way, duh.

[Verbal]

b/c lickliter has more class than Tony. You don't call a kid out in the media.

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.


Yeah, Indiana isn't stockpiled full of basketball talent.

Indiana being stockpiled with talent doesn't make Butler an automatic winner. Butler has turned into a good program because of guys like Matta and Lickliter.

Think about it: there are 3 power conference division 1 schools in Indiana: IU, Purdue and Notre Dame. Each of these schools has built-in recruiting advantages over the Butlers of the world. Butler comes in 4th place in terms of in-state attractiveness right now solely due to Matta and Lickliter turning it into a good program. There are plenty of other D-1 schools in the Hoosier state that Butler has to compete with outside of the 'big 3': Ball State, IUPUI, IPFW, Evansville, Indiana St, and Valparaiso.

Not to mention out of state power programs like North Carolina, Ohio State, Louisville and Kentucky recruit heavily in Indiana. A school like Butler without a coach like Lickliter could easily fall from relevance.

Lickliter has already proven that he can play 4th fiddle in a talent-laden state and still produce a winner. Take into account that Iowa is surrounded by 3 talent-heavy states (Minnesota, Missouri and Illinois), and has some semi-decent talent of its own, and it's not hard to imagine Lickliter having similar, if not greater success at Iowa than he enjoyed at Butler.

[FrankDrebin]

Bingo.

TL wouldn't have built what he did at Butler without being a quality guy. But his system needs guys that buy in first and foremost. If Tony didn't then something had to give. Period.


Yeah, Indiana isn't stockpiled full of basketball talent.

Indiana being stockpiled with talent doesn't make Butler an automatic winner. Butler has turned into a good program because of guys like Matta and Lickliter.

Think about it: there are 3 power conference division 1 schools in Indiana: IU, Purdue and Notre Dame. Each of these schools has built-in recruiting advantages over the Butlers of the world. Butler comes in 4th place in terms of in-state attractiveness right now solely due to Matta and Lickliter turning it into a good program. There are plenty of other D-1 schools in the Hoosier state that Butler has to compete with outside of the 'big 3': Ball State, IUPUI, IPFW, Evansville, Indiana St, and Valparaiso.

Not to mention out of state power programs like North Carolina, Ohio State, Louisville and Kentucky recruit heavily in Indiana. A school like Butler without a coach like Lickliter could easily fall from relevance.

Lickliter has already proven that he can play 4th fiddle in a talent-laden state and still produce a winner. Take into account that Iowa is surrounded by 3 talent-heavy states (Minnesota, Missouri and Illinois), and has some semi-decent talent of its own, and it's not hard to imagine Lickliter having similar, if not greater success at Iowa than he enjoyed at Butler.

You also left out a school historically good recruiting -- Cincinnati.

[PlannedSickDays]

bump

[howler]

Wow, Pipe has been utterly clueless on everything I've read regarding Iowa hoops.

[howler]

I don't like what I am seeing. I see a lot of stiffs coming in. We are light years from ever competing again. We need someone who will recruit athletes.

And JRHawk was spot on.

[PipeDaddy]

Wow, Pipe has been utterly clueless on everything I've read regarding Iowa hoops.

Lots of people getting pwned here, so I'm certainly not alone.

And I'd still call anyone advocating Lick being fired after one year to be complete retards. Perhaps you are included?

[RiotFan]

I think we'v found that Tony Freeman's feelings on Lickliter were more in the majority than the minority.

But Tony was the "classless" one...lol

[Judge Kemp]

Whether he ended up being a failure or not, calling for a coach's head after one season is a bit silly.

[castichawk24]

:rotf:

[howler]

Wow, Pipe has been utterly clueless on everything I've read regarding Iowa hoops.

Lots of people getting pwned here, so I'm certainly not alone.

And I'd still call anyone advocating Lick being fired after one year to be complete retards. Perhaps you are included?

Howler knew this was a dubious hire to begin with. And Howler knew Lick wasn't going to cultivate a culture that would bring in competitive athletes who could stay in games on talent alone. But Howler never called for a firing after the first year.

[Gushawk]

I was calling for it after year 2, by which point I think the handwriting (ability to recruit and relate to players) was abundantly clear.

[howler]

I believe Lick has said in the last week or so that he can't recruit "All Big Ten" type players to Iowa, but he can "hope" they'll become that way at the end of their career. It's a nice sentiment, I guess, but it's also a very revealing one as well.

[PipeDaddy]

I believe Lick has said in the last week or so that he can't recruit "All Big Ten" type players to Iowa, but he can "hope" they'll become that way at the end of their career. It's a nice sentiment, I guess, but it's also a very revealing one as well.

I don't think that statement is really inaccurate. TD didn't recruit very many All Big Ten players either. But he was able to develop them and get the absolute most out of them. Think gangly Acie Earl clomping up the court. And by the time he was a junior and senior he had a great post presence - can't remember if he was All Big Ten or not, but if not he could hold his own with anyone. He did have a funky haircut though.

Coaches at Iowa BB (and football) need to be able to develop talent. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that.

[castichawk24]

I believe Lick has said in the last week or so that he can't recruit "All Big Ten" type players to Iowa, but he can "hope" they'll become that way at the end of their career. It's a nice sentiment, I guess, but it's also a very revealing one as well.


Coaches at Iowa BB (and football) need to be able to develop talent. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that.

That's completely different than saying you can't recruit All Big Ten type players. Just because Lickliter can't doesn't mean nobody can. It has been done in the past, and hopefully will again in the (near) future.

[PipeDaddy]

I believe Lick has said in the last week or so that he can't recruit "All Big Ten" type players to Iowa, but he can "hope" they'll become that way at the end of their career. It's a nice sentiment, I guess, but it's also a very revealing one as well.


Coaches at Iowa BB (and football) need to be able to develop talent. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that.

That's completely different than saying you can't recruit All Big Ten type players. Just because Lickliter can't doesn't mean nobody can. It has been done in the past, and hopefully will again in the (near) future.

We'll get one from time to time, but I highly doubt Iowa will ever be recruiting 4 and 5 star type recruits on a regular basis. Anyone who thinks so can join the anti-Davis crowd when they ran him out.

[howler]

Iowa is absolutely a place where you can recruit a couple tier 1 athletes a year. That is not an unreasonable number. There are hundreds of great high school players each year and they have to go somewhere: why not to a once very good program in a major conference? Watching Tyler Smith for that one year was a revelation: an athlete who could create his own shot and make others around him better. If Craig Neal was starting to hit his stride, then so can someone else.

You can't build a team with players who would only be role guys at a Northwestern or Southern Illinois. I swear to god that Lick believes in his heart that you can, but his record says otherwise.