Toyota says it's no longer profitable in North America

[mobyditch]

Toyota's top executive in the United States said Monday the company was reviewing its entire operation here, including whether to close a factory in California and when to open a factory in Mississippi.

In an hour-long interview with reporters at Toyota's Washington office, Yoshimi Inaba said Toyota is not profitable in North America despite cost cutting in the organization, but he said he hopes the company could be profitable in its next fiscal year in North America. Inaba, who is president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor America and chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, is taking up his responsibilities at a crucial time for the Japanese automaker.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090721/AUTO01/907210324/1148/Toyota+says+it+s+no+longer+profitable+in+North+Ame rica

[PipeDaddy]

Having to compete with a government owned car company certainly won't make matters better.

And that's what kills me about the government takeover - it has the very real potential of hurting jobs of legitimate companies that run things right. And thus kill jobs.

[MikeyJoe]

Having to compete with a government owned car company certainly won't make matters better.

And that's what kills me about the government takeover - it has the very real potential of hurting jobs of legitimate companies that run things right. And thus kill jobs.
I wouldn't be surprised that Toyota's losing money right now. Very few people in the manufacturing business are making money - it doesn't mean that they're still not viable long term.

[PhilHartman]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

[ISUFan98]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

:rolleyes:

[brantshawks]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.

[ISUFan98]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.

Yeah, but they're not good status symbols, and that's ultimately what's most important to Phil.

[The Tin Man]

Ford is already upset at Government Motors for undercutting its auto financing rates while using taxpayer money.

[MickerHawk]

Toyota's are very high quality, and very much like an appliance. As Chafed adequately described them, they're soulless. However, a great many people would rather drive an appliance than a "soul expression."

Neither is wrong.

[cloudhawk]

Toyota's are very high quality, and very much like an appliance. As Chafed adequately described them, they're soulless. However, a great many people would rather drive an appliance than a "soul expression."

Neither is wrong.

Funny I was searching for a word to describe toyota's vehicles in my opinion. I had landed on overrated, but soulless is a very good description

[ISUFan98]

Toyota's are very high quality, and very much like an appliance. As Chafed adequately described them, they're soulless. However, a great many people would rather drive an appliance than a "soul expression."

Neither is wrong.

Funny I was searching for a word to describe toyota's vehicles in my opinion. I had landed on overrated, but soulless is a very good description

It's transportation.

If you want soul, throw the corpse of James Brown in the passenger seat.

[PhilHartman]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

[cjhawks]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

Like Perham, you're trying too hard.

[Klink]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

[ISUFan98]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Aren't most cars "disposable" after 100k miles?

[douglasbader]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
:rollfloor:

[01BizGrad]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

[brantshawks]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

Let me get this straight, keep up hoser, will you?

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

[cloudhawk]

Toyota's are very high quality, and very much like an appliance. As Chafed adequately described them, they're soulless. However, a great many people would rather drive an appliance than a "soul expression."

Neither is wrong.

Funny I was searching for a word to describe toyota's vehicles in my opinion. I had landed on overrated, but soulless is a very good description

It's transportation.

If you want soul, throw the corpse of James Brown in the passenger seat.

Well then you'd have a great artist in an overrated car, kudos. I do like Honda's though

[PhilHartman]

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage?

Yes.

[PhilHartman]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Careful, you're going to get ignored by brantshawks. Nothing get his ire more than not thinking Toyotas are unfailable machines capable of anything and everything. I mean, IT'S A TOYOTA! THEY ARE AWESOME!!!!

[cloudhawk]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

I am very quickly becoming a fan of the Volvo

[ISUFan98]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

Let me get this straight, keep up hoser, will you?

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless. Those things are a dime a dozen, snatched up by suburban wannabes who want it to look like they have money, even though most of them are leased.

[brantshawks]

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage?

Yes.

You're a sad human being, you have my pity.

[ISUFan98]

Funny I was searching for a word to describe toyota's vehicles in my opinion. I had landed on overrated, but soulless is a very good description

It's transportation.

If you want soul, throw the corpse of James Brown in the passenger seat.

Well then you'd have a great artist in an overrated car, kudos. I do like Honda's though

I have neither a Toyota nor a Honda, but people who buy those cars do not buy them looking to be stimulated by their driving experience.

[01BizGrad]

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

Let me get this straight, keep up hoser, will you?

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless. Those things are a dime a dozen, snatched up by suburban wannabes who want it to look like they have money, even though most of them are leased.

My neighbor has one. He went from a used wrangler to this little black thing. Interesting.

[brantshawks]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Careful, you're going to get ignored by brantshawks. Nothing get his ire more than not thinking Toyotas are unfailable machines capable of anything and everything. I mean, IT'S A TOYOTA! THEY ARE AWESOME!!!!

No, I have you on ignore because only 1% of your posts are actually worth a shit and not filled with unnecessary hate and immature diatribe.

[cloudhawk]

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

Let me get this straight, keep up hoser, will you?

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless. Those things are a dime a dozen, snatched up by suburban wannabes who want it to look like they have money, even though most of them are leased.

Somewhat true in many cases, but they are still much better cars than a toyota

[Klink]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Aren't most cars "disposable" after 100k miles?

Yea probably but the Toyota fan-boys act like this 100k mark is some sort of huge accomplishment unheard of in the rest of the car world. I have owned four Chevys that have hit 200k and I fucking hate Chevy.

[PipeDaddy]

Having to compete with a government owned car company certainly won't make matters better.

And that's what kills me about the government takeover - it has the very real potential of hurting jobs of legitimate companies that run things right. And thus kill jobs.
I wouldn't be surprised that Toyota's losing money right now. Very few people in the manufacturing business are making money - it doesn't mean that they're still not viable long term.

I agree. Companies lose money during recessions and make it otherwise.

But... if the government undercuts everyone to get GM going (instead of addressing the real problems) then that will certainly have long term negative effects on Toyota's viability.

[MickerHawk]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Horsecrap.

There are few domestic models that are engineered within a country mile of the lowest quality Japanese model you can name.

I've worked on domestics, and I've worked on Japanese cars. No comparison, not even close. I've driven Japanese models with 300K miles that were far better cars in every way than their domestic counterparts with less than 30K miles, and these cars were in the same class as well.

That was a ridiculous statement, Klink.

[PhilHartman]

Well get back in your ignorance hole then, because Toyotas are sh1t and if you think otherwise you've never driven a true automobile. Sure their window regulators might be utterly fail proof and keep them at the top of reliability rankings with 6 fewer issues per 1000 vehicles... but the rest of the car is poorly designed, ugly garbage so who gives a fuck about hte window regulator except the sheep?

Let me get this straight, keep up hoser, will you?

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless. Those things are a dime a dozen, snatched up by suburban wannabes who want it to look like they have money, even though most of them are leased.

Leases cost money. ;)

[PhilHartman]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Careful, you're going to get ignored by brantshawks. Nothing get his ire more than not thinking Toyotas are unfailable machines capable of anything and everything. I mean, IT'S A TOYOTA! THEY ARE AWESOME!!!!

No, I have you on ignore because only 1% of your posts are actually worth a shit and not filled with unnecessary hate and immature diatribe.

Hey brantshawks, Toyota sucks.

[The Full Monte]

My wife has wanted a 4 Runner (for no other reason than how they look) for quite a while. But after my company signed a new contract with Toyota and bought us new 4 runners last year....there is ZERO f'n chance I would ever buy one myself. I HATE driving that thing

[MickerHawk]

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless.

Oh, come on now. That's as ridiculous as Klink's statement.

[brantshawks]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

[PhilHartman]

Yeah, but Phil only drives 3-series Beemers. Talk about soulless.

Oh, come on now. That's as ridiculous as Klink's statement.

Exactly, I also have a Ford Ranger, euro e28 M5. e30 M3, e30 325is and in the past I've owned a e28 535is, e24 635Csi and a Ford Tempo.

Only 3 series? HA! Please.

[PipeDaddy]

Toyotas are overrated. You pay too much for the name.

However...

American cars suck. The interiors suck. The brakes are spongy. The steering is unresponsive.

German and Japanese cars have tighter, finer interiors. When you close the door it closes with a firm sound, and it's tight. The turn signal handle isn't designed to fall apart in 5 years. The steering is responsive and the brakes don't go down to the floor to engage.

Until American companies address these problems I'll never buy American.

[PhilHartman]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

And you'll think of me every time you drop it off at the shop to get fixed.

[Klink]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Horsecrap.

There are few domestic models that are engineered within a country mile of the lowest quality Japanese model you can name.

I've worked on domestics, and I've worked on Japanese cars. No comparison, not even close. I've driven Japanese models with 300K miles that were far better cars in every way than their domestic counterparts with less than 30K miles, and these cars were in the same class as well.

That was a ridiculous statement, Klink.

I have only seen one Japanese brand that was able to consistently hit high miles and that is Subaru.

[brantshawks]

Toyotas are overrated. You pay too much for the name.



I'm confused by this Pipe. I haven't found a comparable vehicle (price and accessory wise) as the Tacoma/Tundra. They look cool to boot. Looked at the Nissan trucks and they were much more, as are comparable Ford/Chevy/GMC. The Honda Ridgeline is about the closest as I've test driven a few of them, although.

[cloudhawk]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

[Klink]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

Don't you have that Town & Country?

[brantshawks]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

And you'll think of me every time you drop it off at the shop to get fixed.


Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

[Klink]

Holy fuck the Tundra is ugly. Everytime I see one I want to gouge my eyes out with a fork.

[PhilHartman]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

And you'll think of me every time you drop it off at the shop to get fixed.


Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Well you are buying it in my honor...

[newsbreaker]

What if you took Honda's, Toyota's and American Cars, and randomly put Xbox 360's and PS3's in them. Then you randomly put PC's or Apple's in them.

FANBOY THROWDOWN!

[MickerHawk]

I have only seen one Japanese brand that was able to consistently hit high miles and that is Subaru.

I love Subarus, and absolutely love their engineering concepts (boxer engines, symmetrical AWD so no CV joints that are over-stressed), but Honda, Toyota, and Nissan have as much excellence in their engineering as Subaru does, they just build to a different concept.

Toyotas are meant to be appliances. Hondas are not, but because of their consistently astronomic level of quality they get lumped in with the appliance paradigm too. Subarus are meant to be the best engineered mass-populace car in the world, and for the most part they are. Nissans are meant to be the Japanese version of Mercedes, and though the nameplate gravitas is not in the same galaxy the overall engineering concepts are very similar. Mazda builds far higher-quality cars than Ford US or Ford Euro, despite sharing mechanical platforms up to 95%.


In terms of criticism, "soulless" is the only legitimate gripe mentioned here for Japanese makes.

[brantshawks]

I have only seen one Japanese brand that was able to consistently hit high miles and that is Subaru.

Except they are the ugliest fucking cars on the road.

[Klink]

What if you took Honda's, Toyota's and American Cars, and randomly put Xbox 360's and PS3's in them. Then you randomly put PC's or Apple's in them.

FANBOY THROWDOWN!


http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/xzibit-yo-dawg-i-herd-you-like-macs.jpg

[ISUFan98]

What if you took Honda's, Toyota's and American Cars, and randomly put Xbox 360's and PS3's in them. Then you randomly put PC's or Apple's in them.

FANBOY THROWDOWN!


http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/xzibit-yo-dawg-i-herd-you-like-macs.jpg

LMAO. That's some good stuff right there.

[MickerHawk]

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.

[brantshawks]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

[tarhead]

Maybe if they stopped building complete sh1tboxes that would change.

I'm sorry I actually read one of your posts.

Toyota's are some of the best and most reliable cars on the road today.


No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/speedpop/bullshit-button.png

[soybean]

I blame the UAW.

[brantshawks]

I blame the UAW.

They're the downfall of the american automobile.

[01BizGrad]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

Don't you have that Town & Country?

Yes. It's racking up miles quickly and gets beat to shit (wife's car). It also sucks, but was cheap for a growing family. (Bought it soon after the first child.) It's our first family car.

It's also in the shop too.:rolleyes: EGR valve that I really wanted to replace myself, both for fun and to learn something... but I wasn't 100% sure that was the problem.

[01BizGrad]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.
So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.
I want a family sedan and/or a mini van. Basically one for around town stuff and one for family trips (which we do a lot at 4-7 hrs).

Nothing major, no frills. Power doors, locks, ac, cruise, that's all I need in either car. Something to get me from point a to point b.

[cloudhawk]

So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.
I want a family sedan and/or a mini van. Basically one for around town stuff and one for family trips (which we do a lot at 4-7 hrs).

Nothing major, no frills. Power doors, locks, ac, cruise, that's all I need in either car. Something to get me from point a to point b.

get yourself a toyota

[Hawk_Kegmasters]

I have only seen one Japanese brand that was able to consistently hit high miles and that is Subaru.

Except they are the ugliest fucking cars on the road.

I'm getting old enough that I'd rather have a safe car that I can rely on for many miles than a pretty car. That's why I bought a Subaru...although I really don't think it looks that bad. So blow me, mothafucka.

[cloudhawk]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

So, you'd rather have a GMC or a Ford but will choose the Toyota because of cost, assuming that the look of it is not more preferable to the silverado

[MickerHawk]

get yourself a toyota

Well, that was stupid. "Get a Toyota" is on the same plane as "I always buy a Chevy," just to different degrees of stupidity.

[MickerHawk]

So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.
I want a family sedan and/or a mini van. Basically one for around town stuff and one for family trips (which we do a lot at 4-7 hrs).

Nothing major, no frills. Power doors, locks, ac, cruise, that's all I need in either car. Something to get me from point a to point b.

Two cars or one? Also, are you keeping the current minivan?

How important is fuel mileage to you? How many people max will it carry, and how many usually? How often do you go on trips? How much do you want to spend for payment/insurance/gas combined?

Will you buy new or used, or do you care? Do you have a trade-in? Are you upside-down on any current car loans?

Will you ever need to tow with it? Do you ever do carpentry of any kind, or do you go antiques shopping? Go biking, hiking, camping?


Basically, average out your uses for a year's period. Don't buy a vehicle for towing or hauling if it only happens a couple times a year, but also don't buy a vehicle smaller or less capable than what you need for hobbies if you'll use the vehicle for hobbies at least 10% of the time.

If you give all the above some thought and PM me, I'll give you my top-three choices for what I would buy if I were you, and they'll be bulletproof choices.

[cloudhawk]

get yourself a toyota

Well, that was stupid. Get a Toyota is on the same plane as "I always buy a Chevy, just to different degrees of stupidity."

It was a joke, that I thought fit the thread very well.....but you are focused on helping people, that is why you are a well respected poster here

[01BizGrad]

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.
I want a family sedan and/or a mini van. Basically one for around town stuff and one for family trips (which we do a lot at 4-7 hrs).

Nothing major, no frills. Power doors, locks, ac, cruise, that's all I need in either car. Something to get me from point a to point b.

Two cars or one?
I'm replacing one or the other, and I haven't decided which. I really don't want to be a two minivan family, but hell I don't care. So I'm guessing a rec for both vehicle types.

[brantshawks]

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

So, you'd rather have a GMC or a Ford but will choose the Toyota because of cost, assuming that the look of it is not more preferable to the silverado

Nope, didn't say I'd rather have either one, but I do like them. I also like the Lincoln Mark LT, but don't need one.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

I'll be getting a Tacoma or Tundra soon in Phil's honor.

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

Brants, the Ford F-150 has the most options available, trust me, I've read everything there is to read about the Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/Honda/Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan and Dodge versions of the 1/2 trucks currently available. It's the best truck on the road right now. The Tundra is actually kind of out dated compared to the F-150 and Ram (not compared to the Silverado though)

I'm saying this as a life long Silverado owner.

It's not going to cost you much more to go from a Tundra to a Ford if you work the deal. My dad just bought an F-150 Lariat for $11K off the sticker from Stivers.

[cloudhawk]

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

So, you'd rather have a GMC or a Ford but will choose the Toyota because of cost, assuming that the look of it is not more preferable to the silverado

Nope, didn't say I'd rather have either one, but I do like them. I also like the Lincoln Mark LT, but don't need one.

Well then, enjoy your Toyota my friend

[PhilHartman]

Perfect family car...

http://www.autofans.us/images/BMW/BMW%20E90%20M3%20Sedan%205.jpg

[MickerHawk]

get yourself a toyota

Well, that was stupid. Get a Toyota is on the same plane as "I always buy a Chevy, just to different degrees of stupidity."

It was a joke, that I thought fit the thread very well.....but you are focused on helping people, that is why you are a well respected poster here

Whoop-ping. I should have recognized the joke.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

Perfect family car...

http://www.autofans.us/images/BMW/BMW%20E90%20M3%20Sedan%205.jpg

nice stock photo. why don't you post a pic of your real ride? Or, better yet, the 5 rides you claim to currently own, all together in one place?

[cloudhawk]

Beautiful Phil, but a hell of a price tag on that bad boy

[cjhawks]

Do yourself a favor and get a GMC silverado or a Ford, it is what real workmen purchase, although a toyota with a calvin sticker pissing on a chevy logo would be pretty fly

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

Brants, the Ford F-150 has the most options available, trust me, I've read everything there is to read about the Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/Honda/Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan and Dodge versions of the 1/2 trucks currently available. It's the best truck on the road right now. The Tundra is actually kind of out dated compared to the F-150 and Ram (not compared to the Silverado though)

I'm saying this as a life long Silverado owner.

It's not going to cost you much more to go from a Tundra to a Ford if you work the deal. My dad just bought an F-150 Lariat for $11K off the sticker from Stivers.


This may be an incredibly stupid question (consider the source here), but are dealers that desperate to get rid of inventory that they will just take $11k off a truck?

I'm in the market as well, and am intrigued by the Ford F150's. I just suck at negotiating. Any tips would be appreciated Jimmie

[PhilHartman]

Perfect family car...

http://www.autofans.us/images/BMW/BMW%20E90%20M3%20Sedan%205.jpg

nice stock photo. why don't you post a pic of your real ride? Or, better yet, the 5 rides you claim to currently own, all together in one place?

Unfortunately, I don't own an e90 M3.

Even if I did, why exactly would I post pics of my cars on a message board? That would just be weird.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

Perfect family car...

http://www.autofans.us/images/BMW/BMW%20E90%20M3%20Sedan%205.jpg

nice stock photo. why don't you post a pic of your real ride? Or, better yet, the 5 rides you claim to currently own, all together in one place?

Unfortunately, I don't own an e90 M3.

Even if I did, why exactly would I post pics of my cars on a message board? That would just be weird.

weirder than your constant bragging? Doubtful.

[PipeDaddy]

Toyotas are overrated. You pay too much for the name.



I'm confused by this Pipe. I haven't found a comparable vehicle (price and accessory wise) as the Tacoma/Tundra. They look cool to boot. Looked at the Nissan trucks and they were much more, as are comparable Ford/Chevy/GMC. The Honda Ridgeline is about the closest as I've test driven a few of them, although.

Toyota is trying to gain market share in the truck market, so they set the point lower. But a Camry is priced too high for my tastes. You pay for the name - sort of like buying a Sony anything.

[MickerHawk]

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

Brants, the Ford F-150 has the most options available, trust me, I've read everything there is to read about the Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/Honda/Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan and Dodge versions of the 1/2 trucks currently available. It's the best truck on the road right now. The Tundra is actually kind of out dated compared to the F-150 and Ram (not compared to the Silverado though)

I'm saying this as a life long Silverado owner.

It's not going to cost you much more to go from a Tundra to a Ford if you work the deal. My dad just bought an F-150 Lariat for $11K off the sticker from Stivers.


This may be an incredibly stupid question (consider the source here), but are dealers that desperate to get rid of inventory that they will just take $11k off a truck?

I'm in the market as well, and am intrigued by the Ford F150's. I just suck at negotiating. Any tips would be appreciated Jimmie

Off the RETAIL (list) price, yes. The higher the RETAIL price, the more wiggle room there is.

The invoice price is set, but you can even get deals occasionally for 500 less than the invoice price at which approximate point the dealer hasn't made a cent on it but also isn't losing money on it. Yep, the invoice price as well is a little more money than the dealership actually pays even with no factory incentives.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

I like the those, but I need 4 doors and a brand new truck of the big 3 will run 10k more than a Toyota. I really like the options on the Tacoma and the look of them.

Brants, the Ford F-150 has the most options available, trust me, I've read everything there is to read about the Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/Honda/Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan and Dodge versions of the 1/2 trucks currently available. It's the best truck on the road right now. The Tundra is actually kind of out dated compared to the F-150 and Ram (not compared to the Silverado though)

I'm saying this as a life long Silverado owner.

It's not going to cost you much more to go from a Tundra to a Ford if you work the deal. My dad just bought an F-150 Lariat for $11K off the sticker from Stivers.


This may be an incredibly stupid question (consider the source here), but are dealers that desperate to get rid of inventory that they will just take $11k off a truck?

I'm in the market as well, and am intrigued by the Ford F150's. I just suck at negotiating. Any tips would be appreciated Jimmie

I think the amount of Ford dealerships in and around DSM is rediculous, and would have some effect on their willingness to deal. With the advent of internet sites like Cars.com, you can deal on the same truck with 2 or more different dealers.

Go in with all of the facts, and knowing what exact truck you want. If they don't have that exact truck, make them find it. Work separate deals on the new truck, and your trade. Make them work the deal on your trade first.

[PhilHartman]

nice stock photo. why don't you post a pic of your real ride? Or, better yet, the 5 rides you claim to currently own, all together in one place?

Unfortunately, I don't own an e90 M3.

Even if I did, why exactly would I post pics of my cars on a message board? That would just be weird.

weirder than your constant bragging? Doubtful.

Bragging? They're just cars, Mr. Inferiority Complex. Just because you're poor and have a crappy car doesn't make you less of a man. It's the anger you feel towards people you think are better than you that makes you less of a man.

[cloudhawk]

Unfortunately, I don't own an e90 M3.

Even if I did, why exactly would I post pics of my cars on a message board? That would just be weird.

weirder than your constant bragging? Doubtful.

Bragging? They're just cars, Mr. Inferiority Complex. Just because you're poor and have a crappy car doesn't make you less of a man. It's the anger you feel towards people you think are better than you that makes you less of a man.

LOL, reminds me of the Harley thread- good times

[MikeyJoe]

Toyotas are overrated. You pay too much for the name.



I'm confused by this Pipe. I haven't found a comparable vehicle (price and accessory wise) as the Tacoma/Tundra. They look cool to boot. Looked at the Nissan trucks and they were much more, as are comparable Ford/Chevy/GMC. The Honda Ridgeline is about the closest as I've test driven a few of them, although.

Toyota is trying to gain market share in the truck market, so they set the point lower. But a Camry is priced too high for my tastes. You pay for the name - sort of like buying a Sony anything.
On the other hand, when you go to trade it in or sell it, that same name brand overpricing is going to bump up your trade in / resale value.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

Unfortunately, I don't own an e90 M3.

Even if I did, why exactly would I post pics of my cars on a message board? That would just be weird.

weirder than your constant bragging? Doubtful.

Bragging? They're just cars, Mr. Inferiority Complex. Just because you're poor and have a crappy car doesn't make you less of a man. It's the anger you feel towards people you think are better than you that makes you less of a man.


yup, I'm jealous of your mythical automobile, Phil. Good catch.

do you own a unicorn too?

[newsbreaker]

The sooner you folks realize that Phil is the greatest liar we've ever had on this site (and that includes Mr. You-know-who), you'll be much better off.

This is his place to pretend to be something he's not. No need to engage in his fantasy.

[cjhawks]

Brants, the Ford F-150 has the most options available, trust me, I've read everything there is to read about the Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/Honda/Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan and Dodge versions of the 1/2 trucks currently available. It's the best truck on the road right now. The Tundra is actually kind of out dated compared to the F-150 and Ram (not compared to the Silverado though)

I'm saying this as a life long Silverado owner.

It's not going to cost you much more to go from a Tundra to a Ford if you work the deal. My dad just bought an F-150 Lariat for $11K off the sticker from Stivers.


This may be an incredibly stupid question (consider the source here), but are dealers that desperate to get rid of inventory that they will just take $11k off a truck?

I'm in the market as well, and am intrigued by the Ford F150's. I just suck at negotiating. Any tips would be appreciated Jimmie

I think the amount of Ford dealerships in and around DSM is rediculous, and would have some effect on their willingness to deal. With the advent of internet sites like Cars.com, you can deal on the same truck with 2 or more different dealers.

Go in with all of the facts, and knowing what exact truck you want. If they don't have that exact truck, make them find it. Work separate deals on the new truck, and your trade. Make them work the deal on your trade first.

So basically, it'd be a good idea to pit Gabus vs Stivers vs Dewey?

First choice would be Stivers as I have a good friend that works there, but I (and my wife) am definitely not going to limit my options. I'm sure I'll start another thread in the future about it, but thanks for this info.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

This may be an incredibly stupid question (consider the source here), but are dealers that desperate to get rid of inventory that they will just take $11k off a truck?

I'm in the market as well, and am intrigued by the Ford F150's. I just suck at negotiating. Any tips would be appreciated Jimmie

I think the amount of Ford dealerships in and around DSM is rediculous, and would have some effect on their willingness to deal. With the advent of internet sites like Cars.com, you can deal on the same truck with 2 or more different dealers.

Go in with all of the facts, and knowing what exact truck you want. If they don't have that exact truck, make them find it. Work separate deals on the new truck, and your trade. Make them work the deal on your trade first.

So basically, it'd be a good idea to pit Gabus vs Stivers vs Dewey?

First choice would be Stivers as I have a good friend that works there, but I (and my wife) am definitely not going to limit my options. I'm sure I'll start another thread in the future about it, but thanks for this info.

That's how it's worked for me before, and I'll admit, they seem more motivated when they know for a fact that they're competing against another guy.

The friend thing puts you kind of in a bad position. You buy a vehicle from Stivers, and because you know the guy, you won't want to stick it to them too much. But, if you show up at his house with a new Ford that you bought from someone else, how's that going to go over?

You may want to discuss it with him first and say that you're going to make your deal independent of him, whether with Stivers or not.

[PhilHartman]

The sooner you folks realize that Phil is the greatest liar we've ever had on this site (and that includes Mr. You-know-who), you'll be much better off.

This is his place to pretend to be something he's not. No need to engage in his fantasy.

Just curious, who's Mr. You-know-who?

[crazed_hoosier1]

Having to compete with a government owned car company certainly won't make matters better.

And that's what kills me about the government takeover - it has the very real potential of hurting jobs of legitimate companies that run things right. And thus kill jobs.
I wouldn't be surprised that Toyota's losing money right now. Very few people in the manufacturing business are making money - it doesn't mean that they're still not viable long term.

Yep -- and yep (and another yep to Pipedaddy, too).

Toyota's very heavily-invested in North America. With good reason. And that investment has, until recently, paid off in spades for them.

They make good products that have sold tremendously well. And, when new car sales start picking back up again, there's no reason to believe they won't continue selling tremendously well.

Unlike some of their competitors, Toyota actually has a workable business model. But no business model is impervious to a steep enough downturn.

[brantshawks]

In a thread full of crap, once again, crazed has the reasonably outlook that most should (won't) pay attention to.

[cloudhawk]

In a thread full of crap, once again, crazed has the reasonably outlook that most should (won't) pay attention to.

LOL

[FMHoosier]

I'll say this once, and only once:

Don't you ever, ever, say a bad thing about Honda.





You fart crossways with a German auto and it costs $2,000. Give me a break.

[ThePracticalPundit]

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Nahhh, BMWs are fine.




...but Phil is sh1t. :p

[brantshawks]

So, they're sh1t because you think they're ugly garbage? I think that 99% of people that drive BMW's are weak willed and in need of some guidance because they're losing touch with the important things in life. Now, therefore, BMW's are sh1t as well.

Nahhh, BMWs are fine.




...but Phil is sh1t. :p

;)

[RecreationalGynecologist]

The people that call Toyota "shit" are usually over 75 yrs old or they drive Land Rovers which are quite possibly the worst investment any SUV buyer could make. Only the mechanicially clueless and women buy those. As for Phil, I'm pretty sure he does not drive any Euro automobile unless he's in a 20 yr old Volvo

[Klink]

BMW has become the poor man's Mercedes.

[cloudhawk]

Just to be clear, I am not calling Toyota shit- I'm calling them overrated and agree with micker's soulless description. Honda's however are not overrated, IMO

[PhilHartman]

BMW has become the poor man's Mercedes.

Mercedes = German Oldsmobile.

[PhilHartman]

The people that call Toyota "shit" are usually over 75 yrs old or they drive Land Rovers which are quite possibly the worst investment any SUV buyer could make. Only the mechanicially clueless and women buy those. As for Phil, I'm pretty sure he does not drive any Euro automobile unless he's in a 20 yr old Volvo

I'm pretty sure you're not a real Gynecologist.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

BMW has become the poor man's Mercedes.

Mercedes = German Oldsmobile.

With the exception of the high end Mercedes cars and convertibles.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

The people that call Toyota "shit" are usually over 75 yrs old or they drive Land Rovers which are quite possibly the worst investment any SUV buyer could make. Only the mechanicially clueless and women buy those. As for Phil, I'm pretty sure he does not drive any Euro automobile unless he's in a 20 yr old Volvo

I'm pretty sure you're not a real Gynecologist.

No shit Sherlock? After all, did the "recreational" part give it away?

[Natty Bumppo]

I have only seen one Japanese brand that was able to consistently hit high miles and that is Subaru.

Except they are the ugliest fucking cars on the road.

They are different looking, but not ugly.

The interior in my subaru is by far the best I've seen when compared to comparable vehicles. Since I spend most of my time looking at the interior, it makes sense to me.

The exterior of a car stopped being an expression of who I am when I turned 17 years old.

I've had an outback and a tribeca, and my next purchase will more than likely be another subaru. I'll test drive others to make sure, but they are a notch above the others without getting into the ego class of cars.

[Klink]

The WRX STI is the most beautiful ever designed.

[Natty Bumppo]

The WRX STI is the most beautiful ever designed.

That will be one I test drive -- is there room for three child safety seats in the backseat?

[brantshawks]

The WRX STI is the most beautiful ever designed.

I'm sorry, but this is just the ugliest car on the road. I just don't get it.

http://kaarraa.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/subaru-wrx.jpg?w=300&h=225

[Klink]

The WRX STI is the most beautiful ever designed.

I'm sorry, but this is just the ugliest car on the road. I just don't get it.

http://kaarraa.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/subaru-wrx.jpg?w=300&h=225

I <3 the STI

I'm trying to learn how to do matte black for the Triumph project and came across this Porsche today.

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1644/704177.jpg


This car is outstanding.

Sorry, off topic but it is where my head has been all day.

[Jimmie Dimmick]

The WRX STI is the most beautiful ever designed.

I'm sorry, but this is just the ugliest car on the road. I just don't get it.

http://kaarraa.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/subaru-wrx.jpg?w=300&h=225

I <3 the STI

I'm trying to learn how to do matte black for the Triumph project and came across this Porsche today.

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1644/704177.jpg


This car is outstanding.

Sorry, off topic but it is where my head has been all day.

wow!

[ISUFan98]

Giggity.

[chafedHawk]

BMW has become the poor man's Mercedes.

Actually, the C-Class Benz has become the poor man's Mercedes. If you match BMW and Benz up against each other in each class of vehicles, the Bimmers are *usually* more expensive. That doesn't county wacky priced stuff like the G and SLR. Usually, potential BMW and Benz customers are two entirely different bunches of people. The one looking at Bimmers would rather drive a Porsche Boxter or an RX-8 but they're having kids soon. The one eying the Benz is on the verge of retirement and the other option they're considering are Jag, Lexus and Cadillac.

Toyotas are excellent vehicles. We've got an '07 Camry that has operated flawlessly but is not as enjoyable to drive as the Accord ('04) we had prior to that. That car never had a single problem either. Neither did the Subaru Impreza before that, or the '94 FWD Legacy wagon sitting in the driveway right now. Or the '99 Cherokee I currently drive, the '99 Cherokee before that, the '91 Cherokee before that, the two Nissans I've owned, etc. The only real piece of shit in the bunch was the '90-ish Corolla that the girl drove for years before I met her but that was because she never did anything, not even oil changes, and drove it into the ground.

I get a kick out of judgment calls like "ego car". A loaded Camry, Accord or Legacy costs about as much as a comparably equipped luxury sedan and the latter will be more enjoyable to drive, sometimes a bit safer, have extra features and dealer benefits like included maintenance that almost even the playing field even when price is the primary consideration. People feigning modesty go for the loaded Camry...the ones who don't give a shit what others think are going to opt for the luxury sedan nine times out of ten.

In my mind, a Mazda Miata is an ego car. A Ford F-150 driven by a suburbanite that doesn't mow his own lawn is an ego car. Shit, a the Prius is the mother of all ego cars. If those self-righteous bungholes actually gave two and a half craps about mileage and emissions, they'd all be driving VW TDIs or taking the bus to work.

[chafedHawk]

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1644/704177.jpg

boner thread

[Klink]

I'm not big on Ferrari but damn that black is nice.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4493/002zk8.jpg

[chafedHawk]

Wow...could not agree more. No idea why that matte black is so awesome, but DO.WANT.

[Judge Kemp]

So what is the best out there for the average family of four in the US not looking for an SUV?

What do you want to do with the vehicle? Start there, and find the best reviewed and reliable car in its class.

For Pete's sake, don't do what our grandfathers did and always buy a Buick or Oldsmobile.
I want a family sedan and/or a mini van. Basically one for around town stuff and one for family trips (which we do a lot at 4-7 hrs).

Nothing major, no frills. Power doors, locks, ac, cruise, that's all I need in either car. Something to get me from point a to point b.

Get the Odyssey, followed by the Toyota, followed by the Nissan (this is what my wife has and is 100% HAPPY), followed by the Kia, followed by Chrysler T&C or Grand Caravan (I have a 1996 T&C loaded with 175K miles that looks brand new interior wise and aside from crap radio has maintained interior quality), followed by the Chevy and Ford.

The VW looks intriguing, but I don't know much about it.

[brantshawks]

Wow...could not agree more. No idea why that matte black is so awesome, but DO.WANT.

It looks f'n bulletproof and mean. Love it. Iceman and tker should get that on their scooters, fo sho.

[chafedHawk]

Wow...could not agree more. No idea why that matte black is so awesome, but DO.WANT.

It looks f'n bulletproof and mean. Love it. Iceman and tker should get that on their scooters, fo sho.

lmao

I was hoping it had some kind of radar-evading stealth technology. It is mean as hell though. It says "go ahead and key my car, you jealous Prius driving douchebag. I can't see the damage from the driver's seat anyway."

[MickerHawk]

In my mind, a Mazda Miata is an ego car. A Ford F-150 driven by a suburbanite that doesn't mow his own lawn is an ego car. Shit, a the Prius is the mother of all ego cars. If those self-righteous bungholes actually gave two and a half craps about mileage and emissions, they'd all be driving VW TDIs or taking the bus to work.

I agree with all of that except for the Miata criticism. Low weight, perfect 50/50 balance, exceptional handling that you can't match short of a Porsche Boxter or Lotus Exige.

The average Vette due to its owner would probably be more of an ego car than the Miata. There are a ton of Autocross racing clubs devoted to the Miata.

[chafedHawk]

In my mind, a Mazda Miata is an ego car. A Ford F-150 driven by a suburbanite that doesn't mow his own lawn is an ego car. Shit, a the Prius is the mother of all ego cars. If those self-righteous bungholes actually gave two and a half craps about mileage and emissions, they'd all be driving VW TDIs or taking the bus to work.

I agree with all of that except for the Miata criticism. Low weight, perfect 50/50 balance, exceptional handling that you can't match short of a Porsche Boxter or Lotus Exige.

The average Vette due to its owner would probably be more of an ego car than the Miata. There are a ton of Autocross racing clubs devoted to the Miata.

That's probably true on all counts, and I actually like the Miata quite a bit. I just don't think that most people who buy it are doing so for the handling and weight distribution - it's mostly the midlife crisis crowd, hence why I made the ego over-generalization. The MR2 Spyder probably fits into that category as well as the Pontiac Solstice.

And I couldn't agree more where the Vette is concerned. Particularly the old C3s and C4s.

[MickerHawk]

If you harp on the MR2, Chafed, best be ready to throw down. That said, I don't have the Spyder and I see you're talking it down, but still.

[chafedHawk]

If you harp on the MR2, Chafed, best be ready to throw down. That said, I don't have the Spyder and I see you're talking it down, but still.

Eff that. I love that car. I'd opt for that over the Miata even though I know the latter is technically a better car by most measures.

I'll bet you're about 47, balding and look like an accountant, dontcha? :p

[MickerHawk]

LOL. Oh, you're asking for it.

I still have all my hair, though it's grayed considerably since I got married and our daughter was born. I'm very close to 40, in pretty decent shape, and look nothing like an accountant or actuary.

[chafedHawk]

nothing like an accountant or actuary.

loog is not going to be pleased with the outcome of this thread.

I don't know why it is exactly, but everyone I see driving a Miata or MR2 looks like Dick Cheney. It's too bad really. Probably makes younger drivers think twice about getting in one.

Sort of the same deal as the perception that everyone who drives a 3 series or A4 is a wannabe social climber who bought the car as a status symbol. Ruins it for the rest who actually like the car in spite of the stigma attached to driving one.

[soybean]

The people that call Toyota "shit" are usually over 75 yrs old or they drive Land Rovers which are quite possibly the worst investment any SUV buyer could make. Only the mechanicially clueless and women buy those. As for Phil, I'm pretty sure he does not drive any Euro automobile unless he's in a 20 yr old Volvo

I'm pretty sure you're not a real Gynecologist.

No shit Sherlock? After all, did the "recreational" part give it away?

I thought that meant you did it pro bono.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

I LOVE that matte black on the Porsche. What do they call it? "Batmobile Black?"

As for the BMW vs Mercedes argument, I think you'll end up paying more for a higher end Mercedes considering they have some awfully nice convertibles and then the Maybach line

[RecreationalGynecologist]

I'm pretty sure you're not a real Gynecologist.

No shit Sherlock? After all, did the "recreational" part give it away?

I thought that meant you did it pro bono.

Well, I certainly have done it for the public good. I've certainly increased the IQ level on a certain Como Park neighborhood with my DNA

[hawkimike]

If you harp on the MR2, Chafed, best be ready to throw down. That said, I don't have the Spyder and I see you're talking it down, but still.

Eff that. I love that car. I'd opt for that over the Miata even though I know the latter is technically a better car by most measures.

I'll bet you're about 47, balding and look like an accountant, dontcha? :p

I am 48 , balding and am a little thicker than I use to be but the reason I bought my Miata was it was a dependable, affordable and fun car to drive . I have never thought of it being a ego car purchase , just something that the wife and I could do together without room for the kids to come along with us.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/hawkimike/miata.jpg

[PipeDaddy]

I'm confused by this Pipe. I haven't found a comparable vehicle (price and accessory wise) as the Tacoma/Tundra. They look cool to boot. Looked at the Nissan trucks and they were much more, as are comparable Ford/Chevy/GMC. The Honda Ridgeline is about the closest as I've test driven a few of them, although.

Toyota is trying to gain market share in the truck market, so they set the point lower. But a Camry is priced too high for my tastes. You pay for the name - sort of like buying a Sony anything.
On the other hand, when you go to trade it in or sell it, that same name brand overpricing is going to bump up your trade in / resale value.

That's true with two caveats.

First, you'll still lose money on the deal - high resale value won't regain paying too much initially.

Second, if you drive a Toyota for 150k miles the resale won't be squat anyway. :)

[chafedHawk]

If you harp on the MR2, Chafed, best be ready to throw down. That said, I don't have the Spyder and I see you're talking it down, but still.

Eff that. I love that car. I'd opt for that over the Miata even though I know the latter is technically a better car by most measures.

I'll bet you're about 47, balding and look like an accountant, dontcha? :p

I am 48 , balding and am a little thicker than I use to be but the reason I bought my Miata was it was a dependable, affordable and fun car to drive . I have never thought of it being a ego car purchase , just something that the wife and I could do together without room for the kids to come along with us.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/hawkimike/miata.jpg

Nice car, ya Dick Cheney lookin' sumbitch.;) How's that midlife crisis coming along?:p

Doesn't matter why you bought it - the key here is that you enjoy the car - eff everyone else.

I grew up in Spencer, btw. I'd say from the looks of it, you probably live somewhere near the Y? Haven't been back in years though, so things might have changed dramatically. ChipHilton is the other Spencer guy on here in case you weren't aware.

[hawkimike]

Eff that. I love that car. I'd opt for that over the Miata even though I know the latter is technically a better car by most measures.

I'll bet you're about 47, balding and look like an accountant, dontcha? :p

I am 48 , balding and am a little thicker than I use to be but the reason I bought my Miata was it was a dependable, affordable and fun car to drive . I have never thought of it being a ego car purchase , just something that the wife and I could do together without room for the kids to come along with us.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/hawkimike/miata.jpg

Nice car, ya Dick Cheney lookin' sumbitch.;) How's that midlife crisis coming along?:p

Doesn't matter why you bought it - the key here is that you enjoy the car - eff everyone else.

I grew up in Spencer, btw. I'd say from the looks of it, you probably live somewhere near the Y? Haven't been back in years though, so things might have changed dramatically. ChipHilton is the other Spencer guy on here in case you weren't aware.

Actually live close to Moose pond if you remember where that is. Little Chip and my youngest son were classmates at ole SHS

[chafedHawk]

I LOVE that matte black on the Porsche. What do they call it? "Batmobile Black?"

As for the BMW vs Mercedes argument, I think you'll end up paying more for a higher end Mercedes considering they have some awfully nice convertibles and then the Maybach line

Ain't no doubt about it. Benz median price is much higher but there are about, what, five Maybachs on the road?

I just thought it was odd to characterize Bimmers as a "poor man's Mercedes". The lion's share of sales for both companies are the 3-series/5-series and the C-class/E-class. The BMWs are comparable to, if not more expensive than, their Benz counterparts.

I left out the SUVs and the ML thing because they plain suck. I still choose to pretend the Porsche Cayenne doesn't exist.

[puravida]

tell sean barry hi for me.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

[chafedHawk]

I am 48 , balding and am a little thicker than I use to be but the reason I bought my Miata was it was a dependable, affordable and fun car to drive . I have never thought of it being a ego car purchase , just something that the wife and I could do together without room for the kids to come along with us.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/hawkimike/miata.jpg

Nice car, ya Dick Cheney lookin' sumbitch.;) How's that midlife crisis coming along?:p

Doesn't matter why you bought it - the key here is that you enjoy the car - eff everyone else.

I grew up in Spencer, btw. I'd say from the looks of it, you probably live somewhere near the Y? Haven't been back in years though, so things might have changed dramatically. ChipHilton is the other Spencer guy on here in case you weren't aware.

Actually live close to Moose pond if you remember where that is. Little Chip and my youngest son were classmates at ole SHS

That's crazy...I grew up within two blocks of Moose pond. Northwest corner of 8th. St. SE and 3rd Ave, and then one of the split levels in the middle of 5th Ave. that backs up to what used to be a cornfield but now is the pool and park.

Spent many, many hours catching smallies from the shallow side of Moose pond and northern from the other side. Used to swim in that thing all the time.

[chafedHawk]

tell sean barry hi for me.

holy shit. there's a blast from the past.

[hawkimike]

Nice car, ya Dick Cheney lookin' sumbitch.;) How's that midlife crisis coming along?:p

Doesn't matter why you bought it - the key here is that you enjoy the car - eff everyone else.

I grew up in Spencer, btw. I'd say from the looks of it, you probably live somewhere near the Y? Haven't been back in years though, so things might have changed dramatically. ChipHilton is the other Spencer guy on here in case you weren't aware.

Actually live close to Moose pond if you remember where that is. Little Chip and my youngest son were classmates at ole SHS

That's crazy...I grew up within two blocks of Moose pond. Northwest corner of 8th. St. SE and 3rd Ave, and then one of the split levels in the middle of 5th Ave. that backs up to what used to be a cornfield but now is the pool and park.

Spent many, many hours catching smallies from the shallow side of Moose pond and northern from the other side. Used to swim in that thing all the time.

Ranch style house facing north on 8th street?

[chafedHawk]

Actually live close to Moose pond if you remember where that is. Little Chip and my youngest son were classmates at ole SHS

That's crazy...I grew up within two blocks of Moose pond. Northwest corner of 8th. St. SE and 3rd Ave, and then one of the split levels in the middle of 5th Ave. that backs up to what used to be a cornfield but now is the pool and park.

Spent many, many hours catching smallies from the shallow side of Moose pond and northern from the other side. Used to swim in that thing all the time.

Ranch style house facing north on 8th street?

Nope. I assume you mean the brick ranch? Friends of mine lived there. We were the little rambler with the hip roof on the corner that faced south. Used to be white with brown shutters and next door was an empty lot...no idea what it looks like there now. The house on 5th was almost dead center on the block and was stained dark brown. Last I saw of it, it had been painted green and was bought by a 5th grade teacher at Lincoln and her husband.

Oh wait...are you talking about the brown ranch on the south side of 8th? The guy that had about forty coon dogs? Their name is escaping me.

[chafedHawk]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

[hawkimike]

That's crazy...I grew up within two blocks of Moose pond. Northwest corner of 8th. St. SE and 3rd Ave, and then one of the split levels in the middle of 5th Ave. that backs up to what used to be a cornfield but now is the pool and park.

Spent many, many hours catching smallies from the shallow side of Moose pond and northern from the other side. Used to swim in that thing all the time.

Ranch style house facing north on 8th street?

Nope. I assume you mean the brick ranch? Friends of mine lived there. We were the little rambler with the hip roof on the corner that faced south. Used to be white with brown shutters and next door was an empty lot...no idea what it looks like there now. The house on 5th was almost dead center on the block and was stained dark brown. Last I saw of it, it had been painted green and was bought by a 5th grade teacher at Lincoln and her husband.

A house was built on the empty lot and the little rambler has been fixed up nicely by the folks that recently bought it . That neighborhood has filled up with houses in the past few years, really has changed since we moved into the neighborhood in '89 .

[MickerHawk]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

Why? If you get the offroad adjustable suspension, it's a serious rock-crawler. It's at least the equal of any Land Rover, same as its sister vehicle the Touareg.

The Hummer H2 in comparison is a douchebag of a vehicle. Just a different body on a friggin' suburban chassis.

[chafedHawk]

A house was built on the empty lot and the little rambler has been fixed up nicely by the folks that recently bought it . That neighborhood has filled up with houses in the past few years, really has changed since we moved into the neighborhood in '89 .

I just saw that on Google Earth. Dad remodeled the hell out of that rambler and built the garage that is has now. We lived in that until around '85 or so, then on 5th Ave. from '85-90 iirc.

Weird. I'd bet a thousand bucks we know each other. Or you at least knew my parents.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

Why? If you get the offroad adjustable suspension, it's a serious rock-crawler. It's at least the equal of any Land Rover, same as its sister vehicle the Touareg.

The Hummer H2 in comparison is a douchebag of a vehicle. Just a different body on a friggin' suburban chassis.

Why would you bring Land Rover into this? The majority of LR vehicles are crap.

[chafedHawk]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

Why? If you get the offroad adjustable suspension, it's a serious rock-crawler. It's at least the equal of any Land Rover, same as its sister vehicle the Touareg.

The Hummer H2 in comparison is a douchebag of a vehicle. Just a different body on a friggin' suburban chassis.

No argument on the H2. Plus I'd like to knock out the idiot who keeps trying to park a yellow one at a local Trader Joe's where there simply isn't space.

I still can't reconcile Porsche with SUVs. BMW either.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

I guess the X5 is a decent SUV (BMW) but why spend the $$ when you can get something just as reliable or bigger for less?

What does the BMW X5 have over the Nissan Xterra? Really?

[xr4ticlone]

This Toyota is crap stuff is moronic.

Parents 200K on a perfectly good Avalon they traded...that I wanted to buy but they didn't think to call. It was a great car when they traded it...better ride than most new Chevy's or Fords. No problems.

Uncle in Law 200K on his 2000 Tundra. No problems

FIL 150K on his 4 runner. No problems.

My last Tundra...152k and still going under new ownership. I did NOTHING to that truck. My buddy that bought it can't get it away from his wife...because it rides better and is more fun to drive than her 300 STR8.

FIL 1996 Camry...crapped out engine at 160K miles. My FIL does no maintenance and the thing ran the last 40k miles sounding like chitty-chitty-bang-bang. "I asked the shop about it...but they said it was fine" sure you did Eddy...sure you did. : )

MIL...Avalon with 95K miles...like new.

Brother has a Sienna and 06 Tundra.

We have a 08 Sienna and 08 Tundra. Love them both.

Number of people I know who have major issues with Toyota cars or trucks.

1 My boss who's dad bought him a 1960's Toyota Corolla and the chrome came off the bumpers. I tell him that's why I don't buy 1960 models. : )

[L. Wade Childress]

has anyone else had really good luck with a 2002+ trailblazer? my wife's had one for 7 years and that thing has been flawless

[RecreationalGynecologist]

My uncle was a devout proponent of buying American vehicles, especially trucks. My cousin convinced him to buy a Toyota truck 3 years ago. He has not bought anything other than a Toyota since. He just bought a brand new Avalon to go with his Toyota Tundra. (Which he traded his 3 yr old 4 dr Tacoma TRD in for)

[HFBM]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Aren't most cars "disposable" after 100k miles?

Yea probably but the Toyota fan-boys act like this 100k mark is some sort of huge accomplishment unheard of in the rest of the car world. I have owned four Chevys that have hit 200k and I fucking hate Chevy.

you must be really fucking old. i cant imagine driving 800k miles, let alone what you have put on your other cars. maybe i will hit that someday, when i am like 60 or 70, or 80, maybe 90. i don't want to do the math.

[chafedHawk]

This Toyota is crap stuff is moronic.

...Toyotatoyotatoyotatoyotatoyotatoyota...

Who said Toyotas are crap?:confused: Some of the best engineered vehicles on the market. I assume the overrated comments were geared more towards the fact that Subaru, Honda and Nissan are probably every bit as well engineered and reliable but for a lot of consumers, the discussion ends at Toyota. i.e. your entire extended family.;)

[xr4ticlone]

This Toyota is crap stuff is moronic.

...Toyotatoyotatoyotatoyotatoyotatoyota...

Who said Toyotas are crap?:confused: Some of the best engineered vehicles on the market. I assume the overrated comments were geared more towards the fact that Subaru, Honda and Nissan are probably every bit as well engineered and reliable but for a lot of consumers, the discussion ends at Toyota. i.e. your entire extended family.;)

Well in all fairness...

My dad has an 08 F250 with the V10...which he regrets due to the 11mpg he gets...and that he now realizes he doesn't really want to up his trailer all over the country anyway since he can drive the Avalon and get a hotel for less. : )

My BIL has a 2000 F150 that he'll have till the end of time...it's part of his Texas A&M farm boy mentality. It's a badge of honor to die with the 1st new truck you bought out of school. : )

His wife has a Toyota 4 Runner.

So see...we have two non Toyota's in the family. We're very diverse. And at holidays we all sit down at dinner and talk about how we haven't done jack to our Toyota's again this year.

ME "You have to buy any tires this year?"

THEM "Nope...we did change the oil last week though".

ME "Good deal"

THEM "Pass the ham please"

It's a good time. :)

[chafedHawk]

lol

[MickerHawk]

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

Why? If you get the offroad adjustable suspension, it's a serious rock-crawler. It's at least the equal of any Land Rover, same as its sister vehicle the Touareg.

The Hummer H2 in comparison is a douchebag of a vehicle. Just a different body on a friggin' suburban chassis.

Why would you bring Land Rover into this? The majority of LR vehicles are crap.

No, they really aren't. The Defender, which I've driven overseas and which we do not get here, is second only to a Wrangler Rubicon for off-road work.

LR's are decent vehicles, though a bit overpriced. And, the Touareg/Cayenne/Audi Q7 is better than them at virtually everything they do.

[RecreationalGynecologist]

I said the "Majority" of Land Rover and Range Rover vehicles suck ass. Now the Defender is a whole different animal. You can get them here in the US, but it isnt easy. I've seen a few around, which is silly because they're not needed in the suburbs.

[PhilHartman]

Toyota sucks.

[ned rierson]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who own those friggin Cayenne's. As for aesthetics, BMW has done a better job IMO with their entry and mid-level cars than Mercedes..

Definitely agree on the aesthetics. And yeah, I see those effing Cayennes all over the place. What a douchebag of a vehicle.

Why? If you get the offroad adjustable suspension, it's a serious rock-crawler. It's at least the equal of any Land Rover, same as its sister vehicle the Touareg.

The Hummer H2 in comparison is a douchebag of a vehicle. Just a different body on a friggin' suburban chassis.

Land Rover = D bag vehicle

H2 = Massive D bag vehicle

Cayennes = Bad ass yuppie machine

I drove a Touareg for 3 years and absolutely loved it in the winter and off the beaten path. The only thing it was missing was that supercharged Cayenne engine.

Here is what i bought yesterday. All wheel drive for winter (without all of the service and repair BS that I have had to deal with on my previous Audi Quattros), fun to drive, and looks nice. Agree with Chafed. Why get a loaded Maxima unless you give a shit what others think about what you are driving?

http://www.stephensautomotivesales.com/images/vehicles/0837925B-AEC4-B2F4-ECF9D82293A1CA87_x.jpg

[jabberja]

Congrats to Phil. He served a whole lot of you guys.

[MickerHawk]

Congrats, Ned. AWD G35s are about perfect. Is that a manual or an auto?

[ned rierson]

Congrats, Ned. AWD G35s are about perfect. Is that a manual or an auto?

Thanks! It is automatic. I believe to get the AWD you had to have Automatic in 2005. The manual had a hp boost and would have been a blast to drive but was RWD only. Non-starter for me. Plus the wife will be driving it some :)

Had the 2000 A6 2.7T with Quattro and a six speed manual. GIAC performance chipped to 315hp and that was almost the perfect car to drive. Still miss driving it, but not the service or fear of one of the turbos going out.

[lilzaphod]

No they are not. Toyota has never deserved the reputation that so many non-car people gave it. They are 100k mile disposable cars with a few that reach 200k miles. Cheap parts, cheap labor, lousy engineering is what you get in a Toyota. Same goes for Honda.

Careful, you're going to get ignored by brantshawks. Nothing get his ire more than not thinking Toyotas are unfailable machines capable of anything and everything. I mean, IT'S A TOYOTA! THEY ARE AWESOME!!!!

No, I have you on ignore because only 1% of your posts are actually worth a shit and not filled with unnecessary hate and immature diatribe.

I should feel honored that you don't ignore me, and I only produce about .5%.