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View Full Version : Upcoming SC case on guns rights could be crucial


PipeDaddy
02-28-2010, 11:28 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-court-guns28-2010feb28,0,1693697.story

When the Supreme Court takes up a challenge this week to Chicago's strict ban on handguns, it will hear two contrasting visions of how to make the city safer and to protect its residents from gun violence.

On one side are the law-abiding city dwellers who say they need guns to protect themselves from armed thugs. Among them is Otis McDonald, who says he is worried about the armed drug dealers on the streets in his Morgan Park neighborhood.

"I only want a handgun in my home for my protection," said McDonald, 76.

On the other side are prosecutors and police who say the city's ban on handguns gives them a legal basis for confronting gang members and drug dealers.

"If an officer sees a bulge in a pocket, he can stop and frisk that person," said Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez.

In Chicago, New York and elsewhere, police say these stop-and-frisk searches make the streets safer by disarming thugs. "If this [ban] is overturned, we think there would be an increase in violence," Alvarez said.

Regardless of who prevails, the case of McDonald vs. Chicago figures to be a landmark in the history of the 2nd Amendment and its "right to keep and bear arms." It will decide whether the 2nd Amendment applies only to federal gun laws or if it can be used across the nation to strike down state and local gun restrictions.

First, Loog would be in trouble walking the streets of Chicago given the current law.

Second (and on a more serious note), it is this sort of case that intrigues me. Does the US Constitution apply on all levels? And what about cases where two different Amendments seem to be somewhat contradictory?

This should be a good one.

Being the legal scholar that I am, I'd lean toward strict possession laws being struck down, but actual carrying laws being pretty much left to state/local regulation.

Du Hawk Du Mich
02-28-2010, 03:51 PM
lol at Anita Alvarez

Wild Onion
02-28-2010, 03:56 PM
More law-abiding citizens carrying guns =//= an increase in violence. The opposite is often the case.

Secondly, there are not two contradictory amendments here.

Rolo Tomassi
02-28-2010, 03:56 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-court-guns28-2010feb28,0,1693697.story

When the Supreme Court takes up a challenge this week to Chicago's strict ban on handguns, it will hear two contrasting visions of how to make the city safer and to protect its residents from gun violence.

On one side are the law-abiding city dwellers who say they need guns to protect themselves from armed thugs. Among them is Otis McDonald, who says he is worried about the armed drug dealers on the streets in his Morgan Park neighborhood.

"I only want a handgun in my home for my protection," said McDonald, 76.

On the other side are prosecutors and police who say the city's ban on handguns gives them a legal basis for confronting gang members and drug dealers.

"If an officer sees a bulge in a pocket, he can stop and frisk that person," said Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez.

In Chicago, New York and elsewhere, police say these stop-and-frisk searches make the streets safer by disarming thugs. "If this [ban] is overturned, we think there would be an increase in violence," Alvarez said.

Regardless of who prevails, the case of McDonald vs. Chicago figures to be a landmark in the history of the 2nd Amendment and its "right to keep and bear arms." It will decide whether the 2nd Amendment applies only to federal gun laws or if it can be used across the nation to strike down state and local gun restrictions.

First, Loog would be in trouble walking the streets of Chicago given the current law.

Second (and on a more serious note), it is this sort of case that intrigues me. Does the US Constitution apply on all levels? And what about cases where two different Amendments seem to be somewhat contradictory?

This should be a good one.

Being the legal scholar that I am, I'd lean toward strict possession laws being struck down, but actual carrying laws being pretty much left to state/local regulation.


Agree. There should be absolutely no restrictions on having a gun in your home. Carrying one in your car or on the street is another matter. And to carry one in your car or on the street, one should have to undergo a thorough background check.

Gushawk
02-28-2010, 04:10 PM
There sort of are two contradictory amendments here, Onion, in that the question is whether the 2nd Amendment is (or, for strict constructions, was meant to be) applicable to state and local government through 14th Amendment incorporation. (My guess is that the historical record on that particular point is, at best, inconclusive...and, at worst, there is no historical basis for that proposition.) The earlier DC case didn't involve that issue, as the 2nd Amendment clearly applies in full force in that specific locale.

Somewhat interestingly, many of those supporting incorporation here think it has been wrongly applied in other contexts, probably most notably the Establishment Clause, even though the original intent case for incorporation in those contexts is considerably stronger.

I personally think that the 2nd Amendment should apply to state and local governments, and that the debate should solely be over what it means. Clearly, some regulation incidental to gun ownership is Constitutionally permissible, but IMO it probably doesn't apply to outright bans of all handguns.

Hacksaw Jim Duggan
02-28-2010, 04:14 PM
would Plaxico be released????

Gushawk
02-28-2010, 04:24 PM
would Plaxico be released????

unlikely, but it does raise an interesting question regarding the impact on a not insignificant number of currently incarcerated persons

PipeDaddy
02-28-2010, 04:53 PM
More law-abiding citizens carrying guns =//= an increase in violence. The opposite is often the case.

Secondly, there are not two contradictory amendments here.

I agree on the amendments - I was just speaking to the types of cases I find most interesting, and that's one of them. This is the other - a jurisdiction sort of thing.

Edited after reading Gus's comments - my "jurisdiction sort of thing" I guess applies as he put forth.

Gushawk
02-28-2010, 05:03 PM
Yeah, the jurisdictional reach of the 2nd Amendment is one way of looking at the issue. Alot of self-proclaimed supporters of more "state and local control" and alot of believers in an expansive federal government should be somewhat torn by this case, given their positions on the substance of the the underlying question ("gun control"). Regrettably, most of them don't understand our Constitutional set up well enough to realize it...or they are consciously selective in their support of those concepts concerning the overrarching structure of our system of government.