When is the Rapture going to occur?

[mobyditch]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

[sergeanthulka]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

Scripture basically says that no one knows exactly when Christ will return, but we should always have our 'house in order', so to speak for when he does.

So, anyone predicting a firm date is out of line.

[Gushawk]

Outside date is when the sun burns out, but human exinction will likely significantly precede that time.

[xr4ticlone]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

Link?

Right now I've got June 2012 penciled in myself.

As OP points out we will never know the actual 'time' but the Bible does give us insight into the 'season'.

As I've pointed out several times the second coming of Israel is a MAJOR (cap'd for importance) sign of the times. Many other predictions were either poorly studied, or just non Biblical because without this event nothing was going to happen. Most predictions were from cults...and some outcasts looking to profit from their deceptions.

Many of the things talked about in the end times are now in place and happening today. What that means as far as time left???? I'd be surprised if it's more than 25 years from now to be honest.

Israel is a state.

Iran, Russia, and Israel go to war (not hard to picture right now...Iran and Israel are obvious...but Russia is working closely with Iran selling them weapons and protecting them at the UN).

We now have the technology to make much of what would have been impossible...possible. IE electronic 'mark' to manage all buying and selling. Satellites to give us live world wide coverage of events that the Bible says will be seen by the world. (kind of impossible 60 years ago even).

The final thing is a global gov. I think we're quickly moving that way with the next financial crisis...which I think is coming. Global money will be the foundation a global gov is based on...and what better way to fix things than a hard reset with a new global currency that will 'simplify the markets and create a more level and even global playing field'.

I don't BS when I say everyone needs to figure out what they believe and where they are going to put their faith here soon.

[lilzaphod]

"...predictions were from cults"

Agreed.

[SL]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

Link?

Right now I've got June 2012 penciled in myself.

As OP points out we will never know the actual 'time' but the Bible does give us insight into the 'season'.

As I've pointed out several times the second coming of Israel is a MAJOR (cap'd for importance) sign of the times. Many other predictions were either poorly studied, or just non Biblical because without this event nothing was going to happen. Most predictions were from cults...and some outcasts looking to profit from their deceptions.

Many of the things talked about in the end times are now in place and happening today. What that means as far as time left???? I'd be surprised if it's more than 25 years from now to be honest.

Israel is a state.

Iran, Russia, and Israel go to war (not hard to picture right now...Iran and Israel are obvious...but Russia is working closely with Iran selling them weapons and protecting them at the UN).

We now have the technology to make much of what would have been impossible...possible. IE electronic 'mark' to manage all buying and selling. Satellites to give us live world wide coverage of events that the Bible says will be seen by the world. (kind of impossible 60 years ago even).

The final thing is a global gov. I think we're quickly moving that way with the next financial crisis...which I think is coming. Global money will be the foundation a global gov is based on...and what better way to fix things than a hard reset with a new global currency that will 'simplify the markets and create a more level and even global playing field'.

I don't BS when I say everyone needs to figure out what they believe and where they are going to put their faith here soon.

You're fucking scary, dude.

[newsbreaker]

It will occur 3 minutes after Moby makes his first intelligent point.


We couldn't be further away.

[drbutkus]

That date doesn't work for me.


You aren't really serious, are you xrt?

[Match34]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

Link?

Right now I've got June 2012 penciled in myself.

As OP points out we will never know the actual 'time' but the Bible does give us insight into the 'season'.

As I've pointed out several times the second coming of Israel is a MAJOR (cap'd for importance) sign of the times. Many other predictions were either poorly studied, or just non Biblical because without this event nothing was going to happen. Most predictions were from cults...and some outcasts looking to profit from their deceptions.

Many of the things talked about in the end times are now in place and happening today. What that means as far as time left???? I'd be surprised if it's more than 25 years from now to be honest.

Israel is a state.

Iran, Russia, and Israel go to war (not hard to picture right now...Iran and Israel are obvious...but Russia is working closely with Iran selling them weapons and protecting them at the UN).

We now have the technology to make much of what would have been impossible...possible. IE electronic 'mark' to manage all buying and selling. Satellites to give us live world wide coverage of events that the Bible says will be seen by the world. (kind of impossible 60 years ago even).

The final thing is a global gov. I think we're quickly moving that way with the next financial crisis...which I think is coming. Global money will be the foundation a global gov is based on...and what better way to fix things than a hard reset with a new global currency that will 'simplify the markets and create a more level and even global playing field'.

I don't BS when I say everyone needs to figure out what they believe and where they are going to put their faith here soon.

You're fucking scary, dude.

These people vote. That's fucking scary.

[nolookpass]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

[bearbull24.5]

You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
It's all a fucking mockery
No grasp upon reality
It's mind control for compulsory religion
And the skeleton Christ

You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
I laugh at the abortion known as Christianity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil anyday
Hail Satan
.

[Slyhawk]

June 9, 2010

[lilzaphod]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

People who eat shellfish or cut their hair aren't, either.

[nolookpass]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

People who eat shellfish or cut their hair aren't, either.

really? Link to where thats said in the New Testament?

TIA

[xr4ticlone]

What is 'scary' about me?

I'm just telling you what is in the book...and what is in the book is starting to unfold right now.

I don't see anything 'scary' about all of this...it's a little unnerving not knowing what will happen here leading up to that day...because quite frankly I don't expect things to be all that good. (God typically uses rough times to bring people closer to him...I highly doubt this time will be any different).

One thing to keep in mind about Israel's return...most people alive today were either not born before Israel became a state again...or were not very old when it happened. Thus most do not realize how remarkable it is that Israel once again is a state. Most Christian theologians were trying to figure out what else could be used in place of Israel returning as a state. Because of the importance of Israels return as a sign of Christ's return, many were trying to use other events to explain those passages because they were sure Israel would never be a state again.

Just FYI.

[Monster]

So I can stop this 41 by 41 nonsense?

[xr4ticlone]

That date doesn't work for me.


You aren't really serious, are you xrt?

I was joking about June. Forgot the : )

I totally believe the 25 years (more likely less) though.

I saw Leheay, Jenkins, and Rosenberg on a TV show about a year ago (Leheay and Jenkins wrote Left Behind and Rosenberg has a similar set of books that have been surprisingly accurate about world events that are based off his fictional writing and Biblical prophecy).

Only Jenkins thought more than 5 to 10 years for Christ's return...and it was obvious that he was hedging with the hope that more time would mean a greater amount of time to bring more people to Christ.

Point being I'm not alone on this island. : )

[lilzaphod]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

People who eat shellfish or cut their hair aren't, either.

really? Link to where thats said in the New Testament?

TIA

http://www.heleneb.ca/2008pages/Pages_Group01/CarolioneO_YannickD/cafeteria.jpg

[nolookpass]

People who eat shellfish or cut their hair aren't, either.

really? Link to where thats said in the New Testament?

TIA

http://www.heleneb.ca/2008pages/Pages_Group01/CarolioneO_YannickD/cafeteria.jpg

if you are going to mock the Bible at least be semi informed.

[FMHoosier]

xrt was simply a fuck.

Now, he has ascended to scary fuck

[lilzaphod]

really? Link to where thats said in the New Testament?

TIA

http://www.heleneb.ca/2008pages/Pages_Group01/CarolioneO_YannickD/cafeteria.jpg

if you are going to mock the Bible at least be semi informed.

Hey azzhole.. I was confirmed and studied before I rejected the church. I'm as informed as many 'born agains' that song on and on about it. I still read parts of it to this day.

BTW- I'm not mocking the bible. I'm mocking many of it's followers. There is a nuanced difference that I'm not expecting you to grasp.

[xr4ticlone]

xrt was simply a fuck.

Now, he has ascended to scary fuck

Corky...you're back!

http://www.performabilities.org/Chris%20Burke03a.jpg

[drbutkus]

Revelations has got to be the weirdest book in the bible. In fact, it is the jumping off point into fantasy and cult for many people. Its authorship is highly questionable.

But I've no doubt whoever wrote it was dabbling in mushrooms.

[Thagoods]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

Ever since the beginning of time, people have been saying we are living in the end times.

[bearbull24.5]

I assume it will be a zombie apocalypse?

[Match34]

I assume it will be a zombie apocalypse?

Only if the robots don't get us first.

[sergeanthulka]

http://www.heleneb.ca/2008pages/Pages_Group01/CarolioneO_YannickD/cafeteria.jpg

if you are going to mock the Bible at least be semi informed.

Hey azzhole.. I was confirmed and studied before I rejected the church. I'm as informed as many 'born agains' that song on and on about it. I still read parts of it to this day.

BTW- I'm not mocking the bible. I'm mocking many of it's followers. There is a nuanced difference that I'm not expecting you to grasp.

You're attempting to 'mock many of it's followers', yet (as NLP pointed out), you're demonstrating your ignorance in doing so. Not eating shellfish, for example, was part of the ceremonial Law of Moses. The Law that Christ abolished - declaring everything clean - when he made atonement on the cross.

Keep reading.

[HoundedHawk]

The rapture will never occur.

[Pedro]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

Ever since the beginning of time, people have been saying we are living in the end times.
Gotta keep that fellowship up!

[ISUFan98]

The rapture will never occur.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but I've never seen the passage in the Bible that discusses "the Rapture" as so famously described by millions of evangelical Christians, and Kirk Cameron.

[nolookpass]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

Ever since the beginning of time, people have been saying we are living in the end times.


but for most of those times, Israel hadnt completed what had been prophezised about.

[lilzaphod]

if you are going to mock the Bible at least be semi informed.

Hey azzhole.. I was confirmed and studied before I rejected the church. I'm as informed as many 'born agains' that song on and on about it. I still read parts of it to this day.

BTW- I'm not mocking the bible. I'm mocking many of it's followers. There is a nuanced difference that I'm not expecting you to grasp.

You're attempting to 'mock many of it's followers', yet (as NLP pointed out), you're demonstrating your ignorance in doing so. Not eating shellfish, for example, was part of the ceremonial Law of Moses. The Law that Christ abolished - declaring everything clean - when he made atonement on the cross.

Keep reading.

If you think that people don't reach back into the old testament for "justification" for their actions, you need to open your eyes a little wider.

[lilzaphod]

The rapture will never occur.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but I've never seen the passage in the Bible that discusses "the Rapture" as so famously described by millions of evangelical Christians, and Kirk Cameron.

Well. You're wrong.

- someone with a different opinion on the topic.

[MoneyPit]

January 1981

http://www.newsgroupdownloaders.com/videos/blondie_rapture.jpg

[Match34]

Alls I know is, if Rapture doesn't occur, no big deal, but if it does, you want to be in the group that devoted their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

[sergeanthulka]

Hey azzhole.. I was confirmed and studied before I rejected the church. I'm as informed as many 'born agains' that song on and on about it. I still read parts of it to this day.

BTW- I'm not mocking the bible. I'm mocking many of it's followers. There is a nuanced difference that I'm not expecting you to grasp.

You're attempting to 'mock many of it's followers', yet (as NLP pointed out), you're demonstrating your ignorance in doing so. Not eating shellfish, for example, was part of the ceremonial Law of Moses. The Law that Christ abolished - declaring everything clean - when he made atonement on the cross.

Keep reading.

If you think that people don't reach back into the old testament for "justification" for their actions, you need to open your eyes a little wider.

No, you are right about that...but still wrong about shellfish.

Like titheing, or the old sacrificial system of bulls & goats. Those systems have been done away with (and upgraded).

The 10 commandments, on the other hand, still apply.

Hounded could explain better than I, but you just need a little more nuance to your theology...

[Karl Hungus]

The 10 commandments, on the other hand, still apply

how's that sabbath keeping going for you?

[Karl Hungus]

The rapture will never occur.

This.

[Pedro]

It's rare, the day in which I get to use the same quote in two different threads. Good be the day.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[lilzaphod]

You're attempting to 'mock many of it's followers', yet (as NLP pointed out), you're demonstrating your ignorance in doing so. Not eating shellfish, for example, was part of the ceremonial Law of Moses. The Law that Christ abolished - declaring everything clean - when he made atonement on the cross.

Keep reading.

If you think that people don't reach back into the old testament for "justification" for their actions, you need to open your eyes a little wider.

No, you are right about that...but still wrong about shellfish.

Like titheing, or the old sacrificial system of bulls & goats. Those systems have been done away with (and upgraded).

The 10 commandments, on the other hand, still apply.

Hounded could explain better than I, but you just need a little more nuance to your theology...

Hey, if you're going to pick and choose, my "cafeteria" picture sums this up, juuuuust fine.

My biggest problem is really about people spouting off on 'certainties' about this subject, yet rely solely on interpretations and translations of the word. This is one of the largest and longest games of "Chinese telephone" in the history of the world.

Your sect has done away with those systems. They are not "done away with", or Israel and the Jewish faith would not exist.

[lilzaphod]

Alls I know is, if Rapture doesn't occur, no big deal, but if it does, you want to be in the group that devoted their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

The "Do it or Else" and the "Just in Case" Christians come out to play.

Is that that 1st Church of CYA?

[danish_hawkeye]

sometime in the next we..........

[sergeanthulka]

If you think that people don't reach back into the old testament for "justification" for their actions, you need to open your eyes a little wider.

No, you are right about that...but still wrong about shellfish.

Like titheing, or the old sacrificial system of bulls & goats. Those systems have been done away with (and upgraded).

The 10 commandments, on the other hand, still apply.

Hounded could explain better than I, but you just need a little more nuance to your theology...

Hey, if you're going to pick and choose, my "cafeteria" picture sums this up, juuuuust fine.

My biggest problem is really about people spouting off on 'certainties' about this subject, yet rely solely on interpretations and translations of the word. This is one of the largest and longest games of "Chinese telephone" in the history of the world.

Your sect has done away with those systems. They are not "done away with", or Israel and the Jewish faith would not exist.

Well, I can see where this conversation is going. If you think the Bible amounts to a game of Chinese telephone, I don't think we have a basis to continue debating.

If Christ was who he claimed to be, the Jewish faith certainly has been done away with. But again, one has to believe that Scripture is accurate & authoritative to make that assertion.

[lilzaphod]

No, you are right about that...but still wrong about shellfish.

Like titheing, or the old sacrificial system of bulls & goats. Those systems have been done away with (and upgraded).

The 10 commandments, on the other hand, still apply.

Hounded could explain better than I, but you just need a little more nuance to your theology...

Hey, if you're going to pick and choose, my "cafeteria" picture sums this up, juuuuust fine.

My biggest problem is really about people spouting off on 'certainties' about this subject, yet rely solely on interpretations and translations of the word. This is one of the largest and longest games of "Chinese telephone" in the history of the world.

Your sect has done away with those systems. They are not "done away with", or Israel and the Jewish faith would not exist.

Well, I can see where this conversation is going. If you think the Bible amounts to a game of Chinese telephone, I don't think we have a basis to continue debating.

If Christ was who he claimed to be, the Jewish faith certainly has been done away with. But again, one has to believe that Scripture is accurate & authoritative to make that assertion.

Pretty much. If I 'buy' that the original words came from God, I have a strong issue with the subsequent translations as "accurate" since the words and mores of the ancient societies were radically different than the translators from centuries later. The meaning and intent of those words become skewed.

Factor in things like the Council of Nicea and the codification of the belief system centuries after the events, and the idea that the 'Divinity of Christ' had to be settled upon by the differing sects at the time, I find it very hard to believe that man hasn't misinterpreted the word of God by this point.

Christian's can't even come to the same consensus here on most theological topics. There's too much interpretation required for the words that are written, and I believe that's intentional. With doubt, comes the desire to be right. So what you end up with is that 'Faith' becomes a sword instead of a shawl for comfort.

This is how you get "God hates fags" from "Jesus loves you". And that, that's just not 'right'. But those people (and I loathe to use that phrase) have plenty of ammo to back up their beliefs as you have to back up theirs. Again - it is easy to classify that as a misinterpretation of God's word when it is so blatantly opposed to the words attributed to Christ.

So I'm going to try to be as 'good' as I can, because it's the right thing to do. If I end up getting my ass handed to me from a supreme being from 2000 (or 200,000,000) years ago because the message got mixed up, so be it.

[Thagoods]

Alls I know is, if Rapture doesn't occur, no big deal, but if it does, you want to be in the group that devoted their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

You don't realize why that's not a good enough reason for some?

[HoundedHawk]

If I 'buy' that the original words came from God, I have a strong issue with the subsequent translations as "accurate" since the words and mores of the ancient societies were radically different than the translators from centuries later. The meaning and intent of those words become skewed . . . So I'm going to try to be as 'good' as I can, because it's the right thing to do. If I end up getting my ass handed to me from a supreme being from 2000 (or 200,000,000) years ago because the message got mixed up, so be it.
You're living your life on the assumption "the words and mores of the ancient societies were radically different than the translators from centuries later."

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

[HoundedHawk]

Factor in things like the Council of Nicea and the codification of the belief system centuries after the events, and the idea that the 'Divinity of Christ' had to be settled upon by the differing sects at the time, I find it very hard to believe that man hasn't misinterpreted the word of God by this point.
You say this as if it wasn't a realistic expectation or predicted by Scripture.

[nolookpass]

The rapture will never occur.

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603

[HoundedHawk]

The rapture will never occur.

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603
You can add millions to the list, but it still doesn't make it so.

[Karl Hungus]

The rapture will never occur.

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603

:rotf:

[lilzaphod]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

You're 'assuming' that the people you respect and were influenced by during your studies were right. My opinion on this was formed well before Dan Brown became a name.

It's fine that you want to play "liberal" games with this, but it really just shows your own security through insecurity. I'm ok with you telling me I'm wrong, just as I know you're not ok with me knowing you're wrong as well.

[nolookpass]

The rapture will never occur.

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603
You can add millions to the list, but it still doesn't make it so.
do you believe youve studied the Bible more than he has?

[lilzaphod]

Doesn't matter, NLP. He's 'right'.

[MikeyJoe]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

You're 'assuming' that the people you respect and were influenced by during your studies were right. My opinion on this was formed well before Dan Brown became a name.

It's fine that you want to play "liberal" games with this, but it really just shows your own security through insecurity. I'm ok with you telling me I'm wrong, just as I know you're not ok with me knowing you're wrong as well.
Depending on when you were confirmed, there have been quite a few archeological/bibliographic advances since then. The idea of Biblical translation as several century game of Telephone is (scholarly speaking) 25 years or so out of date.

[Karl Hungus]

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603
You can add millions to the list, but it still doesn't make it so.
do you believe youve studied the Bible more than he has?

The entire 'theology' of the rapture comes from 2 verses in 1 Thes, didn't exist until the 1700s (more fully in the 1800s), and is only really accepted because it got put in a popular study bible (the notes are inerrant too, you know) and a crappy fictional series.

[Mr. Hawk]

Billy Graham is not the final word on Christian eschatology.

[MikeyJoe]

The entire 'theology' of the rapture comes from 2 verses in 1 Thes...
Which always read more to me like a statement on who will be taken rather than how.

[Mr. Hawk]

Billy Graham's authority aside, see below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Millennial_views.svg/440px-Millennial_views.svg.png

[sergeanthulka]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

All the better reason not to rely solely on the beliefs of others in forming your theology.

And, b-t-w...whether the Rapture happens of not isn't of primary importance. Either way, always be prepared to stand before God.

Lastly, if you lump mainstream (i.e. Biblical) Christianity in with the Fred Phelps' of the world. You are hugely mistaken. Virtually all of proclaiming Christians strongly repudiate his words & actions.

[sergeanthulka]

Billy Graham's authority aside, see below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Millennial_views.svg/440px-Millennial_views.svg.png

If I'm not mistaken, from prior discussions...isn't Hounded a #4?

[HoundedHawk]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

You're 'assuming' that the people you respect and were influenced by during your studies were right. My opinion on this was formed well before Dan Brown became a name.

It's fine that you want to play "liberal" games with this, but it really just shows your own security through insecurity. I'm ok with you telling me I'm wrong, just as I know you're not ok with me knowing you're wrong as well.
Fact: You don't know I'm wrong. It's just another wild guess as you did with the Scriptures being drastically different than originally penned.

It really shows my security through insecurity? Please give more than liberal babble. That's incredibly weak.

And I didn't assume the people who taught me were correct. The beliefs I possess are not based on the trust of my teachers in the past. As the Bereans did with Paul, I've done with every teacher.
Ac 17:10-11 - And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so. - (NASB)
Plus, much of what I believe is not even the result of my exposure to them.

[HoundedHawk]

Billy Graham disagrees.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=1603
You can add millions to the list, but it still doesn't make it so.
do you believe youve studied the Bible more than he has?
I don't know. I know he obviously preached longer. But isn't that an irrelevant question?

[LakeBull]

Billy Graham's authority aside, see below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Millennial_views.svg/440px-Millennial_views.svg.png

There is also a mid-tribulation view out there and likely a few more. The bottom line is that no one really knows. Long range prophesies are much clearer in the rear view mirror and sometimes intervening events are greatly obscured. It is like looking at mountain ranges in the distance and attempting to gage how close together the different ranges are and guessing what kind of territory is interspersed between them.

The scholars of Christ's time were pretty clueless, but looking back at Old Testament prophesies a lot of the stuff is straight forward enough that it fits nicely in the New Testament, however; the lenses these prophesies were viewed through obscured their vision. I'm sure much the same will apply to current biblical scholars.

[mobyditch]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

The bible states nothing about the Rapture.

[HoundedHawk]

Billy Graham is not the final word on Christian eschatology.
Fact.

[sergeanthulka]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

The bible states nothing about the Rapture.

Isn't that akin to saying the Bible states nothing about the Holy Spirit? Both statements might be technically true, but practically speaking, demonstrably false.

[HoundedHawk]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

The bible states nothing about the Rapture.

Isn't that akin to saying the Bible states nothing about the Holy Spirit?
? Were you wanting to say "trinity"?

[mobyditch]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

The bible states nothing about the Rapture.

Isn't that akin to saying the Bible states nothing about the Holy Spirit? Both statements might be technically true, but practically speaking, demonstrably false.

Read "Jesus Interrupted" and you'll see how there is no reference to the Rapture in the bible.. If fact they have been predicting the end of times for about 2000 years now and Rapture for a little more than 100 years..

[lilzaphod]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

All the better reason not to rely solely on the beliefs of others in forming your theology.

And, b-t-w...whether the Rapture happens of not isn't of primary importance. Either way, always be prepared to stand before God.

Lastly, if you lump mainstream (i.e. Biblical) Christianity in with the Fred Phelps' of the world. You are hugely mistaken. Virtually all of proclaiming Christians strongly repudiate his words & actions.

1. "All the better reason not to rely solely on the beliefs of others in forming your theology." Uhm.. No shit, Sherlock. I think going off the reservation entirely qualifies as "not relying solely on the beliefs of others". But again, it boils down to truth. "What is truth"? Where have we heard or read that before?

2. re: Phelps - His is not the first, nor will it be the last, group to use the Bible to push an agenda of hate. It goes back to interpretation of the word.

[lilzaphod]

Just because you read a liberal book on it or watched a Dan Brown movie, doesn't make it so.

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

You're 'assuming' that the people you respect and were influenced by during your studies were right. My opinion on this was formed well before Dan Brown became a name.

It's fine that you want to play "liberal" games with this, but it really just shows your own security through insecurity. I'm ok with you telling me I'm wrong, just as I know you're not ok with me knowing you're wrong as well.
Fact. You don't know I'm wrong. It's just another wild guess as you did with the Scriptures being drastically different than originally penned.

It really shows my security through insecurity? Please give more than liberal babble. That's incredibly weak.

And I didn't assume the people who taught me were correct. The beliefs I possess are not based on the trust of my teachers in the past. As the Bereans did with Paul, I've done with every teacher.
Ac 17:10-11 - And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so. - (NASB)
Plus, much of what I believe is not even the result of my exposure to them.

Fact: You use the word "liberal" wrong.

[HoundedHawk]

Billy Graham's authority aside, see below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Millennial_views.svg/440px-Millennial_views.svg.png

If I'm not mistaken, from prior discussions...isn't Hounded a #4?
I believe the kingdom of Christ has been established and that we are in the millenium referenced in Revelations. Yes, I do believe it is symbolic. After all, the "thousand years" is only mentioned in Revelation and the pattern of the numbers heavily leans toward being symbolic since it is a book full of symbols.

[HoundedHawk]

Fact: You use the word "liberal" wrong.
How would you know? That's for me to judge. From where I sit it is liberal. It's a mater of perspective. My words are "liberal babble" from another point of view.

And it doesn't change the main issue that you made unsubstantiated claims.

[lilzaphod]

Fact: You use the word "liberal" wrong.
How would you know? That's for me to judge. From where I sit it is liberal. It's a mater of perspective. My words are "liberal babble" from another point of view.

And it doesn't change the main issue that you made unsubstantiated claims.

Bu-bye. I've had enough pointless circle jerk for the day.

Back to reading CMMI Level 2 certification standards. While that is a circle jerk as well, it's what I'm being paid for.

[HoundedHawk]

Fact: You use the word "liberal" wrong.
How would you know? That's for me to judge. From where I sit it is liberal. It's a mater of perspective. My words are "liberal babble" from another point of view.

And it doesn't change the main issue that you made unsubstantiated claims.

Bu-bye. I've had enough pointless circle jerk for the day.

Back to reading CMMI Level 2 certification standards. While that is a circle jerk as well, it's what I'm being paid for.
You're the one that made the big bold claims concerning the Scripture, and when you can't back it up you run.

Bu-bye, indeed.

[lilzaphod]

How would you know? That's for me to judge. From where I sit it is liberal. It's a mater of perspective. My words are "liberal babble" from another point of view.

And it doesn't change the main issue that you made unsubstantiated claims.

Bu-bye. I've had enough pointless circle jerk for the day.

Back to reading CMMI Level 2 certification standards. While that is a circle jerk as well, it's what I'm being paid for.
You're the one that made the big bold claims concerning the Scripture, and when you can't back it up you run.

Bu-bye, indeed.

Yes, that's what it is. You caught me. It must always be nice being right.

[sergeanthulka]

The beliefs you expose here are counter to the teaching of my confirmation minister and the minister of my grandparents. Both of whom, were at odd to each other on many key sections of scripture as well.

All the better reason not to rely solely on the beliefs of others in forming your theology.

And, b-t-w...whether the Rapture happens of not isn't of primary importance. Either way, always be prepared to stand before God.

Lastly, if you lump mainstream (i.e. Biblical) Christianity in with the Fred Phelps' of the world. You are hugely mistaken. Virtually all of proclaiming Christians strongly repudiate his words & actions.

1. "All the better reason not to rely solely on the beliefs of others in forming your theology." Uhm.. No shit, Sherlock. I think going off the reservation entirely qualifies as "not relying solely on the beliefs of others". But again, it boils down to truth. "What is truth"? Where have we heard or read that before?

2. re: Phelps - His is not the first, nor will it be the last, group to use the Bible to push an agenda of hate. It goes back to interpretation of the word.

1.) It seemed as though you were using others' disagreement as a reason to call the whole work of the Bible unreliable. The fact that two people disagree doesn't discredit the work itself in any way. I'm not sure what your response above is saying...?

2.) Phelps doesn't even try to shroud his hate in any reasonable interpretation of the word. The fact that God judges (and will further judge) sin, doesn't mean in any way, shape or form that God hates fags. The simplest Kindergartner understands this distinction. It's not a strike against the Bible or Christianity, however. It's a strike against those who are ignorant of what the Bible really teaches.

[PhilHartman]

I just read an interesting comment that the Family Radio(a rightwing propaganda radio station) stated that the Rapture is coming in May of 2011. Does anyone else concur with this date??

Scripture basically says that no one knows exactly when Christ will return, but we should always have our 'house in order', so to speak for when he does.

So, anyone predicting a firm date is out of line.

I have my weapons to fight the jesusbeast well oiled and ready to go. Jesus is way too cocky coming into this. Overconfidence is his biggest weakness. He's in for a big surprise and a world of pain. A WORLD OF PAIN!

Actually I kidding, once we catch him and tie him up we'll probably just screw with him for awhile and then let him go. No need to punish him anymore, his own pride taking a hit will be punishment enough.

[HoundedHawk]

Bu-bye. I've had enough pointless circle jerk for the day.

Back to reading CMMI Level 2 certification standards. While that is a circle jerk as well, it's what I'm being paid for.
You're the one that made the big bold claims concerning the Scripture, and when you can't back it up you run.

Bu-bye, indeed.

Yes, that's what it is. You caught me. It must always be nice being right.
It was obvious. Almost as much as this ploy of sarcastic insulting to change the subject is.

[ABeardedDragon]

Israel is a state.



Atleast you aren't saying it happened in a day anymore...

[nolookpass]

Hounded is not the final word on Christian eschatology.
Fact.
.

[MickerHawk]

I think it's fast approaching but anyone trying to put a date on it isnt following what the Bible says.

+1

[HoundedHawk]

Hounded is not the final word on Christian eschatology.
Fact.
.
Though Mr. Hawk and I would surely strongly agree with the above altered quote, I see no reason to misquote Mr. Hawk.

[ChipHilton]

There won't be any doubt- any "I believe"- when the Kingdom of God is established on this earth.

[PhilHartman]

There won't be any doubt- any "I believe"- when the Kingdom of God is established on this earth.

TOTALLY, DUDE! Like that's TOTALLY the way it's going to be! It just makes SENSE!

[ChipHilton]

There won't be any doubt- any "I believe"- when the Kingdom of God is established on this earth.

TOTALLY, DUDE! Like that's TOTALLY the way it's going to be! It just makes SENSE!

Dude, it's just what the book says. At least I ain't making up some interpretation that calls for manipulating the book like one of those balloons that gets shaped into a dog or duck by the balloon twister guy.

[PhilHartman]

Yeah, the book Satan wrote to fool you buffoons. Way to buy into Satan's (Jesus') ridiculous anti-logical explanation for the Universe.

When the Jesusbeast comes, I'll be on the true God's side beating him back to whatever hole he crawled out of.