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Hawkstrat

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Need to move White back to the 3. I don't give a shit if he sucks there, because he sucks at the 4 too.

Gessel
Marble
White
Basabe
Woody

Basabe gives this team more effort at the defensive end and doesn't dribble the ball out of bounds.
Full retard.

Basically you are saying Aaron White sucks regardless of where you put him on the court.

Holy piss.
White is not good against athletic teams. He's good against the Northwestern and Wisconsin type of players.
I expected him to improve his game this season, but he hasn't. His stupid up and under crap that he does around the basket doesn't work against athletic teams. He is also a terrible shooter.
This season he has scored 15 against Indiana, 18 against ISU (they aren't great, but they are athletic), and 21 at Virginia Tech.

I'm not going to find his game by game from last year, but you are undoubtedly wrong about this. McCabe is more feast/famine against less athletic/athletic teams, although he played pretty well today.
 

nolookpass

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we had about a two minute stretch the last four minutes where Gesell was the only guard on the court. really dumb.
 

Hawkstrat

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we had about a two minute stretch the last four minutes where Gesell was the only guard on the court. really dumb.
I don't remember if Fatrick was on the court, but your points remains. Even giving Fran extra wiggle room due to Marble's injury, he left an unproductive lineup on the court for far too long.
 

Talkin' Goat

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I still think this team will get on a roll now that the schedule starts to ease up a bit. We'll get some confidence and pick off one or two that we shouldn't.

Damn it would have been nice to get one of those though. Freshman guards being freshman guards. I hope to hell the lazy passes and overthrows get fixed. The overthrows I don't mind as much because it's being aggressive, but fuck I feel like Gesell has 2-3 a game that aren't even that close.

And Woody reeeally needs to get stronger. The soft hands are nice for catching and putting up his hook shot, but sometimes he needs to grab the fucking thing and slam it. If Aaron White was 7-1, I think he would try to dunk everytime he got the ball. Still like Woody though - we gotta go through the growing pains with him just like with the guards.

Jim Burr can eat a bag of shit.
 

Talkin' Goat

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Well, have to go 9-6 going forward to make the tourney. Unlikely but possible I guess.
That can be done...

1/13 @NW
1/19 Wisc
1/22 @OSU
1/27 @PUR
1/31 PSU
2/3 @Minn
2/6 @Wisc
2/9 NW
2/14 @PSU
2/17 Minn
2/21 @NEB
2/27 PUR
3/2 @IND
3/5 ILL
3/9 NEB
3/14 BTT
 
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Need to move White back to the 3. I don't give a shit if he sucks there, because he sucks at the 4 too.

Gessel
Marble
White
Basabe
Woody

Basabe gives this team more effort at the defensive end and doesn't dribble the ball out of bounds.
Full retard.

Basically you are saying Aaron White sucks regardless of where you put him on the court.

Holy piss.
White is not good against athletic teams. He's good against the Northwestern and Wisconsin type of players.
I expected him to improve his game this season, but he hasn't. His stupid up and under crap that he does around the basket doesn't work against athletic teams. He is also a terrible shooter.
JFC.

At Virginia Tech: 21 points on 15 shots, 10 boards, 0 turnovers.
Vs. Iowa State: 18 points on 13 shots, 7 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover.
Vs. Indiana: 15 points on 12 shots, 6 boards, 1 block, 2 assists, 0 turnovers.
Vs. MSU: 11 points on 6 shots, 6 boards, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 turns.
 

RiotFan

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JFC.

At Virginia Tech: 21 points on 15 shots, 10 boards, 0 turnovers.
Vs. Iowa State: 18 points on 13 shots, 7 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover.
Vs. Indiana: 15 points on 12 shots, 6 boards, 1 block, 2 assists, 0 turnovers.
Vs. MSU: 11 points on 6 shots, 6 boards, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 turns.
He's not a half court player at this point.
 

Hawkstrat

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JFC.

At Virginia Tech: 21 points on 15 shots, 10 boards, 0 turnovers.
Vs. Iowa State: 18 points on 13 shots, 7 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover.
Vs. Indiana: 15 points on 12 shots, 6 boards, 1 block, 2 assists, 0 turnovers.
Vs. MSU: 11 points on 6 shots, 6 boards, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 turns.
He's not a half court player at this point.
He certainly gets his fair share of points off of run outs, but he isn't garbage in the half court either.

But he isn't a guy you'd run your offense through, Iowa tried to do that a little, and he had a few extra turnovers to show for it.

It sucks he missed a couple of FTs, but no need to pretend he isn't valuable to this team.
 

douglasbader

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AZMess went full TOS retard with this thread. Really embarrassing and he should be way above this shit.
 

RiotFan

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He certainly gets his fair share of points off of run outs, but he isn't garbage in the half court either.

But he isn't a guy you'd run your offense through, Iowa tried to do that a little, and he had a few extra turnovers to show for it.

It sucks he missed a couple of FTs, but no need to pretend he isn't valuable to this team.
I agree with most of this. He can't take I am a giant douche defenders off the dribble and he's not confident in his jumper. He should be making his hay on the O glass, not as one of the primary options in the half court O.
 

scottsdalehawk

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He certainly gets his fair share of points off of run outs, but he isn't garbage in the half court either.

But he isn't a guy you'd run your offense through, Iowa tried to do that a little, and he had a few extra turnovers to show for it.

It sucks he missed a couple of FTs, but no need to pretend he isn't valuable to this team.
I agree with most of this. He can't take I am a giant douche defenders off the dribble and he's not confident in his jumper. He should be making his hay on the O glass, not as one of the primary options in the half court O.
No doubt but when Marble is out, White has to become a primary option.
 
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I'm not liking our chances on Sunday if Marble is out and we have 2 freshmen doing freshmen things against their defense.

Fuck this would have been a big confidence boost for them to win without Marble. And while the schedule gets much easier down the stretch we still need some good wins over tournament teams. Not to mention the possible disaster of starting 0-4 with 2 of our next 3 being road games at OSU and Purdue.
 

douglasbader

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Q. Trying to get Josh the last shot?
COACH McCAFFERY: No.
 

Bovert

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Why did Woodbury not play the last 18 minutes or so? I was at the game and couldn't figure it out.
 

RiotFan

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Why did Woodbury not play the last 18 minutes or so? I was at the game and couldn't figure it out.
No clue. Same question on Clemmons, then he suddenly appears at crunch time after e's sat for 10 min. Makes no fucking sense.
 
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Why did Woodbury not play the last 18 minutes or so? I was at the game and couldn't figure it out.
No clue. Same question on Clemmons, then he suddenly appears at crunch time after e's sat for 10 min. Makes no fucking sense.
Clemmons sat because he was 1-9 with 4 turnovers and dogshit. He came in at the end as an offensive sub for May so we could have 3 guards. That made sense.
 

RiotFan

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Clemmons sat because he was 1-9 with 4 turnovers and dogshit. He came in at the end as an offensive sub for May so we could have 3 guards. That made sense.
No, it didn't. If he had some time during that 10 min stretch then fine, but he comes in cold at crunch time with the ball in his hands. Leaving May in with the ball in Gesell's hands makes more sense to me.
 
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Some of the notable stuff from Fran's postgame:

Q. Did you think the play when Aaron gets called for the foul, that was kind of a pivotal play because it got them back in there?
COACH McCAFFERY: You can't foul a three‑point shooter.

Q. What about the timeout late? You're up. They're down three? How tough was it without Devyn? How much of an adjustment?
COACH McCAFFERY: It was tough offensively to get the kind of rhythm we needed. You know, they're a very physical team defensively, and you need a guy who can break his man down and get to the rim and get to the free‑throw line. Of course, I don't know if anybody would have gotten to the free‑throw line that much tonight, apparently.

Q. Do you think the four fouls called on Michigan State. They're a physical team, were you surprised by that?
COACH McCAFFERY: No comment on that.

Q. How about Devyn for Sunday?
COACH McCAFFERY: Iffy.

Q. Did you like the toughness your team played with?
COACH McCAFFERY: Didn't play with any toughness. No, did not. And that's disappointing. Offensively we played with no toughness whatsoever. Defensively, we did. On the glass, we did. But you have the other end of the floor, okay? Can't turn the ball over 18 times. They don't change defenses. They don't press. You can't turn the ball over 18 times, because when you do, it's dunks and lay‑ups. Here we are working hard to stop them and giving them lay‑ups off turnovers. Can't do it.
Q. The toughness you mentioned, was it youth, physicality, intimidation? Anything else?
COACH McCAFFERY: What you have to be able to do in this situation is execute your offense whether you're running motion or set plays. We worked a lot in the last three days on that, and we didn't do it. What we ended up doing was having some good players make some good plays at times.
We got some transition opportunities. But we didn't execute at any point in time when we really needed a basket. We needed to get the ball inside. We needed to get the ball to somebody. Everything that we got was kind of off of*‑‑ now, again, going back to your earlier point, Mike. A little bit because of how they play. You know, there's going to be a little bit of that.
The X is going to be on the O. So your screening action is going to be a little different. They're going to knock you out of your timing and spacing and things of that nature. But you've got to be able to get the ball where it needs to get to and space the floor accordingly and run a set play if you need to, and we couldn't do that today.

Q. What, if anything, do you tell Anthony after a game like this where he had an opportunity to tie it at the end and wasn't able to hit that second one?
COACH McCAFFERY: You know what, I'm not going to say anything about the free throw. The kid missed the free throw. He's human. He's a great person. What I'm not happy with is four turnovers and how they happened, and that's what to me he has to address. He jacked up too many threes in the first half, and he had too many turnovers at critical times.
We had momentum, and next thing you know they're dunking the ball. That cannot happen. Now you could say well, we've got two freshman point guards out there. I don't care. They're not freshmen any more. I don't care if you're a freshman. I don't care what grade you're in. You cannot turn the ball over in those situations. You might have a bad shooting day. You might miss a free throw. You might make a mistake in terms of I thought I was supposed to lineup here, and I was over there. Especially Mike because we're moving him around.
Clemmons plays one spot. Get us to our stuff. That's what I need you to do.
 

Whatever

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Win at Northwestern and you get almost a week off and play Wisconsin at home, hopefully with Marble. This wasn't a must win game, but Sunday is.
 

Whatever

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Some of the notable stuff from Fran's postgame:

Q. Did you think the play when Aaron gets called for the foul, that was kind of a pivotal play because it got them back in there?
COACH McCAFFERY: You can't foul a three‑point shooter.

Q. What about the timeout late? You're up. They're down three? How tough was it without Devyn? How much of an adjustment?
COACH McCAFFERY: It was tough offensively to get the kind of rhythm we needed. You know, they're a very physical team defensively, and you need a guy who can break his man down and get to the rim and get to the free‑throw line. Of course, I don't know if anybody would have gotten to the free‑throw line that much tonight, apparently.

Q. Do you think the four fouls called on Michigan State. They're a physical team, were you surprised by that?
COACH McCAFFERY: No comment on that.

Q. How about Devyn for Sunday?
COACH McCAFFERY: Iffy.

Q. Did you like the toughness your team played with?
COACH McCAFFERY: Didn't play with any toughness. No, did not. And that's disappointing. Offensively we played with no toughness whatsoever. Defensively, we did. On the glass, we did. But you have the other end of the floor, okay? Can't turn the ball over 18 times. They don't change defenses. They don't press. You can't turn the ball over 18 times, because when you do, it's dunks and lay‑ups. Here we are working hard to stop them and giving them lay‑ups off turnovers. Can't do it.
Q. The toughness you mentioned, was it youth, physicality, intimidation? Anything else?
COACH McCAFFERY: What you have to be able to do in this situation is execute your offense whether you're running motion or set plays. We worked a lot in the last three days on that, and we didn't do it. What we ended up doing was having some good players make some good plays at times.
We got some transition opportunities. But we didn't execute at any point in time when we really needed a basket. We needed to get the ball inside. We needed to get the ball to somebody. Everything that we got was kind of off of*‑‑ now, again, going back to your earlier point, Mike. A little bit because of how they play. You know, there's going to be a little bit of that.
The X is going to be on the O. So your screening action is going to be a little different. They're going to knock you out of your timing and spacing and things of that nature. But you've got to be able to get the ball where it needs to get to and space the floor accordingly and run a set play if you need to, and we couldn't do that today.

Q. What, if anything, do you tell Anthony after a game like this where he had an opportunity to tie it at the end and wasn't able to hit that second one?
COACH McCAFFERY: You know what, I'm not going to say anything about the free throw. The kid missed the free throw. He's human. He's a great person. What I'm not happy with is four turnovers and how they happened, and that's what to me he has to address. He jacked up too many threes in the first half, and he had too many turnovers at critical times.
We had momentum, and next thing you know they're dunking the ball. That cannot happen. Now you could say well, we've got two freshman point guards out there. I don't care. They're not freshmen any more. I don't care if you're a freshman. I don't care what grade you're in. You cannot turn the ball over in those situations. You might have a bad shooting day. You might miss a free throw. You might make a mistake in terms of I thought I was supposed to lineup here, and I was over there. Especially Mike because we're moving him around.
Clemmons plays one spot. Get us to our stuff. That's what I need you to do.
Good stuff.
 

AZmessDAWG

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AZmessDAWG

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0-3.

If league officials wanted to give a Fuck You to Fran, they succeeded.
 

CamelTones

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Fran needs to check himself a bit.
The refs were lucky I didn't throw a basketball at their face from my seat. The charge call on McCabe was made before McCabe even had the ball. Everyone knew that guy was gonna flop and the ref still made the call.
 
I

iCRUNCH

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If league officials wanted to give a Fuck You to Fran, they succeeded.
in all three big ten games, Iowa started hot and then the refs start calling chippy calls bringing the other team back in. it happens in league play, but it seems to affect the players and they can't recover from it. there were some real BS calls in that game. the charge called on Zach was hilarious. the guy pushed off Zach and went flying to the floor. Fran was good not to get T'd up, but Iowa should be getting calls at home.

i agree with giving Ingram, Oglesby's minutes. Josh has totally lost it.
 
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Whatever

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Fran needs to check himself a bit.
The refs were lucky I didn't throw a basketball at their face from my seat. The charge call on McCabe was made before McCabe even had the ball. Everyone knew that guy was gonna flop and the ref still made the call.
Yay, that was horrible. One of the most obvious flops you will ever see. Fran's reaction to that was perfect.
 
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Just got home from the game.

Woody was really working early in the game on both ends of the floor, that being said I'm not so sure he can dunk. A few missed layups early that should have been dunks but he just seems too fucking scared or something.

Gesell makes some dumb ass passes during crucial times.

Basabe and McCabe played really well on both ends of the floor.

May dribbles and stops to look around at no one open.

Ingram played well, he must not be able to shot at all because he differs everytime he gets the ball.

I thought Clemmons was ok, he seemed to pressure their guards pretty well.

Aaron White just doesn't fucking do anything for stretches on defense. I saw a few MSU possessions where he could have came over on help side but he just stood there and watched. With Marble out, he needs to take it to the rack and get fouled.I will say he was fighting for position and they just wouldn't get it to him a lot of the time.

Oglesby can go fuck himself, hard.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Well that sucked. Lots of retard in this thread too. Bringing the lulz.
 

BBK

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Just got home from the game.

Woody was really working early in the game on both ends of the floor, that being said I'm not so sure he can dunk. A few missed layups early that should have been dunks but he just seems too fucking scared or something.

Gesell makes some dumb ass passes during crucial times.

Basabe and McCabe played really well on both ends of the floor.

May dribbles and stops to look around at no one open.

Ingram played well, he must not be able to shot at all because he differs everytime he gets the ball.

I thought Clemmons was ok, he seemed to pressure their guards pretty well.

Aaron White just doesn't fucking do anything for stretches on defense. I saw a few MSU possessions where he could have came over on help side but he just stood there and watched. With Marble out, he needs to take it to the rack and get fouled.I will say he was fighting for position and they just wouldn't get it to him a lot of the time.

Oglesby can go fuck himself, hard.
WOB.
 

Revolver

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Just got home from the game.

Woody was really working early in the game on both ends of the floor, that being said I'm not so sure he can dunk. A few missed layups early that should have been dunks but he just seems too fucking scared or something.

Gesell makes some dumb ass passes during crucial times.

Basabe and McCabe played really well on both ends of the floor.

May dribbles and stops to look around at no one open.

Ingram played well, he must not be able to shot at all because he differs everytime he gets the ball.

I thought Clemmons was ok, he seemed to pressure their guards pretty well.

Aaron White just doesn't fucking do anything for stretches on defense. I saw a few MSU possessions where he could have came over on help side but he just stood there and watched. With Marble out, he needs to take it to the rack and get fouled.I will say he was fighting for position and they just wouldn't get it to him a lot of the time.

Oglesby can go fuck himself, hard.
WOB.
Differs.
 

HawkBall23

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Well, have to go 9-6 going forward to make the tourney. Unlikely but possible I guess.
That can be done...

1/13 @NW
1/19 Wisc
1/22 @OSU
1/27 @PUR
1/31 PSU
2/3 @Minn
2/6 @Wisc
2/9 NW
2/14 @PSU
2/17 Minn
2/21 @NEB
2/27 PUR
3/2 @IND
3/5 ILL
3/9 NEB
3/14 BTT
Thanks to letting the opportunity that was either the IU or MSU game, or both, get away; I think the Hawks will need at least 10 conference wins, pre-BTT. Home wins vs Wisky, Minny, and Illy would be nice, but unless they snag a game or two in any of the road games @ OSU, @ Wisky, or @ Minny - they won't have that one "marquee" win on the schedule. I'll gladly be wrong, but unless IU forgets to show up - literally - that road game is a 100% L and dismissed from discussion.

IF the Hawks want to Dance this year - thanks to starting 0-3 - they have to sweep the contests vs NW, PU, PSU, & Nebby; then tack on Ws for every home games remaining or snag one of the roadies at OSU/UW/MIN/IU, to be 'safe'.


jmho
 
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CamelTones

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Well, have to go 9-6 going forward to make the tourney. Unlikely but possible I guess.
That can be done...

1/13 @NW
1/19 Wisc
1/22 @OSU
1/27 @PUR
1/31 PSU
2/3 @Minn
2/6 @Wisc
2/9 NW
2/14 @PSU
2/17 Minn
2/21 @NEB
2/27 PUR
3/2 @IND
3/5 ILL
3/9 NEB
3/14 BTT
Thanks to letting the opportunity that was either the IU or MSU game, or both, get away; I think the Hawks will need at least 10 conference wins, pre-BTT. Home wins vs Wisky, Minny, and Illy would be nice, but unless they snag a game or two in any of the road games @ OSU, @ Wisky, or @ Minny - they won't have that one "marquee" win on the schedule. I'll gladly be wrong, but unless IU forgets to show up - literally - that road game is a 100% L and dismissed from discussion.

IF the Hawks want to Dance this year - thanks to starting 0-3 - they have to sweep the contests vs NW, PU, PSU, & Nebby; then tack on Ws for every home games remaining or snag one of the roadies at OSU/UW/MIN/IU, to be 'safe'.


jmho
Yup, thought the same thing last night. There will be opportunities for some good wins, but its going to take a perfect night for Iowa to beat either Minnesota or Indiana. I'm not so sure Illinois is going to be ranked by the end of the year, teams are figuring out all you have to do is guard the perimeter and they can't score.
 

Rolo Tomassi

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I predicted we'd start the conference season off at 0-4, yet still finish 9-9, and I'm tentatively sticking by that. I say "tentatively" because I was very disappointed in Gesell last night, and White seems to have lost some confidence and that is troublesome. I realize Gesell is a freshman, but if he doesn't learn how to pass the damn ball without throwing it away, and make a few 3-pointers, he's going to end up being a liability on this team. And Clemmons has been just flat-out awful.
 
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Of our 3 Big Ten games, 2 have been better defensive games than any that we played last year in conference. IU got .92 points per possession, MSU had .89. We've lost both because our offense has been horrible. We've only had 3 home Big Ten games in the last two years where we've been worse offensively.

Against IU it was just shooting. We took care of the ball, got to the line and offensive rebounding was pretty good. Last night we shot it okay but turnovers were brutal, offensive rebounding was bad and the refs kept us from getting to the line plus we missed some late.

Ugh we had two huge ones there for the taking at home. The outlook would be so vastly different if we could just execute at the level of our fucking Bryce Cartwright-led teams. Fuck. Fran was longing for Gatens on his postgame last night.
 

AZmessDAWG

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Of our 3 Big Ten games, 2 have been better defensive games than any that we played last year in conference. IU got .92 points per possession, MSU had .89. We've lost both because our offense has been horrible. We've only had 3 home Big Ten games in the last two years where we've been worse offensively.

Against IU it was just shooting. We took care of the ball, got to the line and offensive rebounding was pretty good. Last night we shot it okay but turnovers were brutal, offensive rebounding was bad and the refs kept us from getting to the line plus we missed some late.

Ugh we had two huge ones there for the taking at home. The outlook would be so vastly different if we could just execute at the level of our fucking Bryce Cartwright-led teams. Fuck. Fran was longing for Gatens on his postgame last night.
Yep. I like the core of talent he has. They just need more experience and to get in the weight room.
 

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Woodbury has the strength of a 6 year old girl.
 

Hawkstrat

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Of our 3 Big Ten games, 2 have been better defensive games than any that we played last year in conference. IU got .92 points per possession, MSU had .89. We've lost both because our offense has been horrible. We've only had 3 home Big Ten games in the last two years where we've been worse offensively.

Against IU it was just shooting. We took care of the ball, got to the line and offensive rebounding was pretty good. Last night we shot it okay but turnovers were brutal, offensive rebounding was bad and the refs kept us from getting to the line plus we missed some late.

Ugh we had two huge ones there for the taking at home. The outlook would be so vastly different if we could just execute at the level of our fucking Bryce Cartwright-led teams. Fuck. Fran was longing for Gatens on his postgame last night.
Yep. I like the core of talent he has. They just need more experience and to get in the weight room.
Agreed, but I am genuinely worried about Oglesby. Great high school shooter, good enough freshman shooter, terrible sophomore shooter.

I don't know the maths real good like, but I have to assume that his drop in shooting percentage and the sample size is large enough to mean there is more to it than normal variance. After 15 games, he is shooting 27%, ten points lower than he shot last year. Maybe trying to speed his release up during the off season hurt his form.

I hope it pays off in the long run though. Him struggling this year is worth it if he can become a shooter closer to 40% than 30%. But I'm starting to think he'll more than likely be recruited over and benched.
 

Gushawk

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I've held out, but I'm close to giving up on Ogelsby.
 

BBK

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We won't need Oglesby next year and we'll have guys like Uthoff, Jok, and current players like Gesell who shoot just as well and can do more things than just shoot. Oglesby will never be any better than the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench here.
 

hawkeyealum

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I laugh when Oglesby tries to do anything basketball-related. Might as well give his minutes to Ingram at this point.
So much this. Oglesby has been the worst shooting guard we have.
 
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