**Official Iowa vs. Northwestern Football Thread - 6:00pm - BTN**

The Full Monte

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Not to say people won’t want someone other than Padilla in the future, but no one with a brain will ever be clamoring for a return of Petras.
If there is anyone stupid enough to lobby for the return of Spencer Petras as the Iowa QB…I hope they step on many many legos today
 

Dolomitey

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I think we saw a pretty good version of Padilla. He was making some confident throws downfield on 3rd down.

If the choice is between Petras and the small chance of good Padilla at least one more time this year? I’ll take my chances.
 

MikeyJoe

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I think we saw a pretty good version of Padilla. He was making some confident throws downfield on 3rd down.

If the choice is between Petras and the small chance of good Padilla at least one more time this year? I’ll take my chances.
What's Petras's upside scenario? When the line blocks well and he has time in the pocket and a receiver open deep downfield he's got a good arm? That's a set of circumstances that every QB benefits from, including Padilla.

Padilla's upside scenario - where the line allows some pressure but he keeps it alive and finds a guy - isn't one Petras can match. And it's the scenario that's far more likely to occur given the rest of Iowa's offensive woes.
 

Alan Lomax

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From an article in The Athletic, this is pretty much the answer needed to who should be running the offense. It's the guy with great chemistry with the best athletes on the team.
Although he practiced with the first unit last week, Padilla said the decision to put him in “was kind of out of the blue” and he heard about it while on the headset with the offensive staff. But right away, he connected with freshman receivers Arland Bruce IV and Johnson.
“I didn’t get a whole ton of reps at the beginning of the season,” Padilla said. “I’ve been running with the second team, and I got a lot of work with them, so I have great chemistry with them.”

“I think that’s one of the main things that played into our success of the passing game today was that me and Arland, when we first got here, we were taking second-team reps with Alex and we both feel comfortable with Alex,” Johnson said. “We feel comfortable with Spencer, too, but we knew that if Alex had to step in, that we kind of already had that connection down. We went through spring ball and fall ball with Alex. So, it just felt good to keep that connection going in the game.”
 

sergeanthulka

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And you want to know how I know that? Because it's almost impossible to play worse than one of the worst quarterbacks in the country.
I know HALO loves it's hyperbole. But Petras' play should still be evaluated within the full context. The same context that understands why the Padilla-led offense generated 3 second half points against a historically bad Northwestern defense. He was neutered. Same as Petras being neutered for 2+ quarters against IU & ISU. When he was turned loose against Maryland, he played well. Really well, imo.

We lost Purdue & Wisconsin games for reasons other than the QB.

The reality is that KF really loves his defense. That has trickled down to an offense that is often risk-averse to the point of hilarity. The NW game was a perfect example of it.
 

Alan Lomax

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Wait til we lose a game or 2 with Padilla at the helm. Tunes will change.
Yeah, they'll go from "maybe this guy is average enough." To, "Jesus fucking christ Iowa has the worst quarterback recruiting in the fucking nation, fire anyone associated with it."
 
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I know HALO loves it's hyperbole. But Petras' play should still be evaluated within the full context. The same context that understands why the Padilla-led offense generated 3 second half points against a historically bad Northwestern defense. He was neutered. Same as Petras being neutered for 2+ quarters against IU & ISU. When he was turned loose against Maryland, he played well. Really well, imo.

We lost Purdue & Wisconsin games for reasons other than the QB.

The reality is that KF really loves his defense. That has trickled down to an offense that is often risk-averse to the point of hilarity. The NW game was a perfect example of it.
You might be retarded Serge. 4 interceptions in one game and you can't put the blame on the QB?
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Petras put up atrocious offensive numbers( albeit with a ton of help from a shitty OC) but the one thing worse than the shit numbers was actually watching him play quarterback. He doesn't have "it". And that was apparent pretty early on. Great attitude, great kid and that goes a long ways with this coaching staff but their track record is less than stellar at the quarterback position.
 

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Even in his best games as an Iowa quarterback there were always plays where he just flat out pooped his pants. We never got through an entire game where there wasn't multiple collective moans because of something stupid he did or a moment when he panicked. He would have never played another down for me after the pirouette into an int against Nebrantska last year.
 

Alan Lomax

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Petras put up atrocious offensive numbers( albeit with a ton of help from a shitty OC) but the one thing worse than the shit numbers was actually watching him play quarterback. He doesn't have "it". And that was apparent pretty early on. Great attitude, great kid and that goes a long ways with this coaching staff but their track record is less than stellar at the quarterback position.
That's the thing with him, I REALLY wish Spence was good at playing quarterback, he seems like a nice kid. But he's a bad quarterback, that can't be fun for him. And Ferentz should absolutely NOT trot him out as starter next week. He'll get a response that he doesn't deserve.
 

AZmess

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Petras put up atrocious offensive numbers( albeit with a ton of help from a shitty OC) but the one thing worse than the shit numbers was actually watching him play quarterback. He doesn't have "it". And that was apparent pretty early on. Great attitude, great kid and that goes a long ways with this coaching staff but their track record is less than stellar at the quarterback position.
Agree. I was worried that Padilla would look the same as Petras given the OL’s issues but I was wrong. He looked good enough to at least be the starter the rest of the season.
 

fossilhawk

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I know HALO loves it's hyperbole. But Petras' play should still be evaluated within the full context. The same context that understands why the Padilla-led offense generated 3 second half points against a historically bad Northwestern defense. He was neutered. Same as Petras being neutered for 2+ quarters against IU & ISU. When he was turned loose against Maryland, he played well. Really well, imo.

We lost Purdue & Wisconsin games for reasons other than the QB.

The reality is that KF really loves his defense. That has trickled down to an offense that is often risk-averse to the point of hilarity. The NW game was a perfect example of it.
sergeanthulka
Stuck with Petras until the bitter end

(The full context is, yes, the right side of the OL is subpar at best and DeJong is a drooling moron who can't block a shopping cart, but Petras has a great arm attached to a brain that shuts off when plays break down, prefers taking sacks to stepping up in the pocket, and is physically unable to run a simple bootleg because he's too fucking slow to do it without getting tackled first. Padilla has a good arm, but can actually step up in the pocket, make reads, and run a goddamn bootleg because he's faster than a crippled grandmother pumped full of sedatives.)

(As others have said, Padilla may well suck, but he's a better fit for the current state of the offense than Petras is. If he ends up not working out, try Deuce. It's not like Iowa's not going to a bowl and won't have some extra practices to figure things out - might as well treat this last half of the season similar to a spring practice and see what you have on the depth chart at QB.)

(We turtled in the second half because Richman, who's mediocre-to-competent, got dinged and had to sit and apparently our only other option at RT is Dipshit DeJong, whose first name I don't care to use because he sucks at being an OL, and Ferentz didn't want to fuck up another QB against goddamn Northwestern.)
 

Hawkeye_Pierce

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I know HALO loves it's hyperbole. But Petras' play should still be evaluated within the full context. The same context that understands why the Padilla-led offense generated 3 second half points against a historically bad Northwestern defense. He was neutered. Same as Petras being neutered for 2+ quarters against IU & ISU. When he was turned loose against Maryland, he played well. Really well, imo.

We lost Purdue & Wisconsin games for reasons other than the QB.

The reality is that KF really loves his defense. That has trickled down to an offense that is often risk-averse to the point of hilarity. The NW game was a perfect example of it.
You can't cherry pick the MD game and conclude that Iowa is holding him back.

Petras started 8 games in 2020. He completed 57% of his passes. Yards per attempt: 6.4. He threw 9 TDs against 6 INTs.

It's almost eerie how similar his numbers are through 8 games in 2021. 58% completion, 6.4 Y/A, 9 TDs and 6 INTs. His rating is 120.1 which is good for 9th in the BT. His completion percentage is among the lowest for a starter in the conference.

So he's had 16 games and hasn't improved at all. And in 2020, Iowa's line wasn't such a huge issue plus he had solid WRs in ISM and Brandon Smith both of whom saw their numbers crater once he took over for a marginal Nate Stanley. It's almost criminal that those two had to finish out their career with Petras.

I don't know if Padilla is the answer either but Petas had 16 games and showed zero improvement. By almost any metric, he's not a good QB. Also, by ANY metric, Brian Ferentz is a shit coordinator so we have that going for us.
 

Rolo Tomassi

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So the Northwestern security people went after the Iowa fan but just let the protestors do their thing? Fucking nerds!
The protesters were security people. That's the only logical explanation.
 

sergeanthulka

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Honestly, we're talking past each other.

Kirk Ferentz hamstrings the offense. Kirk doesn't give any shits about offensive metrics or stats, so quoting them is irrelevant. The only offensive metric to Kirk is W-L. In Kirk's mind, Spencer wasn't 54%, 9TD's / 6 INT's last year. Spencer was 7-2. Brian was 7-2. You can shit on Brian all you want. But, as long as we're winning games & playing 'complementary football', Kirk doesn't care about the stats. He wouldn't even try a hail mary from the 42 yard line on Saturday for fear of something catastrophic happening. He's likely the only one - or one of an exceptionally few - that comes to that decision.

As a fan, I can agree that it doesn't make for the most exciting brand of football. But as a Hawkeye fan, I appreciate the hell out of what KF has done for the program, so while the game Saturday was infuriating, as long as he's winning, Kirk gets to chart the course. I'll put up with statistically inferior offensive football as long as we're winning. Brian Ferentz & Spencer Petras are embodiment's of KF's philosophy.

So again, strictly as a fan, it might lead me to the 'Spencer sucks & is a pants shitter' conclusion...but since, we're stuck with KF, I try & evaluate Spencer's play as I understand KF evaluates him. It saves me a lot of unnecessary angst.
 
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Normally I would agree with you Serge, but Spencer has not won many of the games you and KF are citing. Spencer and Brian are not playing complimentary football. Anytime they play a team that doesn't turn the ball over and has a competent offense they lose. That is because they are not scoring enough points, going 3 and out for large stretches of games and putting tremendous stress on the defense. They almost did it again last Saturday. The only things that kept that from being a loss was 2 awful decisions/throws by NW QB that killed 2 drives to win the game. And Padilla coming in and leading 3 scoring drives giving them 17 points.

Someone said it earlier the only reason people are gushing over Padilla is because they have seen the alternative and it is gross.
 

MikeyJoe

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Honestly, we're talking past each other.

Kirk Ferentz hamstrings the offense. Kirk doesn't give any shits about offensive metrics or stats, so quoting them is irrelevant. The only offensive metric to Kirk is W-L. In Kirk's mind, Spencer wasn't 54%, 9TD's / 6 INT's last year. Spencer was 7-2. Brian was 7-2. You can shit on Brian all you want. But, as long as we're winning games & playing 'complementary football', Kirk doesn't care about the stats. He wouldn't even try a hail mary from the 42 yard line on Saturday for fear of something catastrophic happening. He's likely the only one - or one of an exceptionally few - that comes to that decision.

As a fan, I can agree that it doesn't make for the most exciting brand of football. But as a Hawkeye fan, I appreciate the hell out of what KF has done for the program, so while the game Saturday was infuriating, as long as he's winning, Kirk gets to chart the course. I'll put up with statistically inferior offensive football as long as we're winning. Brian Ferentz & Spencer Petras are embodiment's of KF's philosophy.

So again, strictly as a fan, it might lead me to the 'Spencer sucks & is a pants shitter' conclusion...but since, we're stuck with KF, I try & evaluate Spencer's play as I understand KF evaluates him. It saves me a lot of unnecessary angst.
People love to say this but it's just wrong. There is not a coach in America that is stupid enough to think that repeatedly going 3 and out is a good thing as long as you win the game. There is a huge difference between being conservative and being ineffective. Your theory explains things like not being aggressive in the two minute drill. It does not explain being somehow happy with continually losing yards on first down because "hey we only gave up 12 and won the game".
 

MikeyJoe

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Normally I would agree with you Serge, but Spencer has not won many of the games you and KF are citing. Spencer and Brian are not playing complimentary football. Anytime they play a team that doesn't turn the ball over and has a competent offense they lose. That is because they are not scoring enough points, going 3 and out for large stretches of games and putting tremendous stress on the defense. They almost did it again last Saturday. The only things that kept that from being a loss was 2 awful decisions/throws by NW QB that killed 2 drives to win the game. And Padilla coming in and leading 3 scoring drives giving them 17 points.

Someone said it earlier the only reason people are gushing over Padilla is because they have seen the alternative and it is gross.
Exactly. This isn't like Tony Bennett at Virginia basketball where the team plays slow and boring but they're still efficient and grinding out wins. Iowa is playing poorly on offense in a way that makes things harder on their defense, not easier. Iowa is not grinding out tons of 15 play 7 minute drives that are boring to watch but eat up clock. Iowa had multiple 3 and outs on Saturday that took up less than 2 minutes of game time. That's awful on your defense.

Iowa isn't playing complementary football on offense, they're playing "hope to God your defense generates some turnovers or you're fucked" on offense.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Outside of his parents and immediate family, I just can't imagine watching Spencer and liking what I saw. Like I said above, visually he's actually worse than the atrocious numbers BF's offense potentially allows him.
 

The Dad

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As a fan, when was the last time you were actually excited for the offense to have the ball? It had gotten to the point where it was fucking embarrassing to watch.

Saturday night I was actually excited to see the offense with the ball, if for no other reason then to not have to watch the same profound limitations exploited over and over again.
 

sergeanthulka

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Exactly. This isn't like Tony Bennett at Virginia basketball where the team plays slow and boring but they're still efficient and grinding out wins. Iowa is playing poorly on offense in a way that makes things harder on their defense, not easier. Iowa is not grinding out tons of 15 play 7 minute drives that are boring to watch but eat up clock. Iowa had multiple 3 and outs on Saturday that took up less than 2 minutes of game time. That's awful on your defense.

Iowa isn't playing complementary football on offense, they're playing "hope to God your defense generates some turnovers or you're fucked" on offense.
That's exactly what we did though. On purpose. On the risk/reward spectrum, Kirk dictated that we play the second half on the extreme left end of the spectrum. And yes, Kirk is going to call that complementary football.

And remember, we're not asking Kirk to pretend that we have some kind of dynamic offense. In this context we're asking if Kirk thinks Brian did a good job calling plays in the second half, or if (since we only scored 3 second half points) if Padilla did a good job running the offense.
If asked about going to conservative in the second half, he would say that we're a work in progress, offensively, certainly...new player at QB, didn't want to make a mistake that would yield an easy score. Thought they could make the lead hold up with how the defense was playing...etc...They did exactly what was asked of them.

So again, if you're comparing stats to determine the job performance of an offensive coordinator, or a QB, it's going to be an exercise in FUTILITY. Kirk stifles it. In the name of going 1-0 this week. We'll get back on the practice field & try & improve...etc...
 
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MikeyJoe

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That's exactly what we did though. On purpose. On the risk/reward spectrum, Kirk dictated that we play the second half on the extreme left end of the spectrum. And yes, Kirk is going to call that complementary football.
That's simply incorrect. Iowa isn't getting tackled in the backfield on purpose. Iowa isn't giving sacks up on purpose. You just have to have watched Iowa football in other years to know this.

This is a dogged determination to stick to a conclusion in the face of evidence.
 
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At this point, anyone defending Petras is just an incredibly emotionally needy person.

Call it the Whammo- it's a transparent appeal of superiority. You guys are just emotional fans, not like me and Kirk!

Spencer sucks assholes and Padilla might be okay enough to actually allow Iowa to play the mythical complementary football.
 

sergeanthulka

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That's simply incorrect. Iowa isn't getting tackled in the backfield on purpose. Iowa isn't giving sacks up on purpose. You just have to have watched Iowa football in other years to know this.

This is a dogged determination to stick to a conclusion in the face of evidence.
If you think this is what I'm saying, I'm doing a poor job of making my point.
 
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Like, Iowa runs the ball on 3rd and 15 because Kirk is conservative. That's who he is. Goodson isn't getting tackled in the backfield on 30% of his carries because Kirk is conservative.
He is getting tackled in the backfield on 30% of his carries because KF insists on running outside zone despite a bad OL that isn’t capable of running it, and a division full of defenses that understand exactly how to defend it. Oh and those defenses also know the play before the snap and regularly talk about that fact in post-game interviews.
 

MikeyJoe

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If you think this is what I'm saying, I'm doing a poor job of making my point.
I know it's not what you're saying directly. I'm saying it's the logical conclusion to what you're saying. That we shouldn't point to poor play because this is all philosophy. Some of it is. But not all of it.
 

MikeyJoe

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He is getting tackled in the backfield on 30% of his carries because KF insists on running outside zone despite a bad OL that isn’t capable of running it, and a division full of defenses that understand exactly how to defend it. Oh and those defenses also know the play before the snap and regularly talk about that fact in post-game interviews.
Goodson himself, running in the same scheme in the same division as last year (who knew what was coming just as well as this year's defenses), is getting tackled in the backfield on 10% more of his carries than last year.

And Sargent (albeit smaller sample than Goodson) did it 10% less often than Goodson last year.

 

MikeyJoe

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People always approach this as though we don't all realize that Iowa is never going to lead the Big Ten in scoring offense. We get it. The zone running scheme doesn't work well anymore. They play slowly. They call the game conservatively given certain time and margin situations.

Given all of those things there are things that Iowa does poorly (particularly so this year) that could result in better results were they done better. Not great results. But better than what we're seeing.
 

The Incredible Hawk

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From an article in The Athletic, this is pretty much the answer needed to who should be running the offense. It's the guy with great chemistry with the best athletes on the team.
I am more triggered that Johnson is second team.
 
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The fundamental problem is that KF and Brian believe in imposing their will upon the defense. We do our thing (OZ) no matter what, and we'll just execute better than our opponents.

Unfortunately when your opponent knows the play and how to defend it, you are no longer imposing your own will, you are imposing the defense's will upon yourself.
 
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MikeyJoe

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Some of what the above points to is that it's not rational to believe Brian got significantly worse at his job this year - the main problem is how much shittier the OL is. I suppose you could argue that the poor job they've done is being stubborn in light of how shitty the OL is.
 

MikeyJoe

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The fundamental problem is the KF and Brian believe in imposing their will upon the defense. We do our thing (OZ) no matter what, and we'll just execute better than our opponents.

Unfortunately when your opponent knows the play and how to defend it, you are no longer imposing your own will, you are imposing the defense's will upon yourself.
Again - this is the fundamental problem if you want Iowa to change their scheme and do something different entirely.

It is not the fundamental problem as to why the 2021 offense has been so much shittier than other Iowa teams.
 

sergeanthulka

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KF does not want to salt the game away 2 minutes at a time with consecutive 3 and outs...cmon man
So, you don't agree that the play calling made an abrupt change from what it had been in the second quarter?

We must've watched different games.

Did Kirk WANT to go 3 & out? Absolutely not.

Did Kirk insist that the offense get super conservative/predictable which hamstrings the offenses ability to move the ball & score points? Absolutely.
 
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