**Official Iowa vs. Northwestern Football Thread - 6:00pm - BTN**

cloudhawk

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Its the ol' doing the things you are good at and designing the gameplan based on your personnel.
 
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Johnson has started the last 5 or 6 games.
Taking the first snap is irrelevant. Until very recently, he was not a part of the 3 WR set on 3rd downs and not part of any 2 minute offense. You know, the two most important situations for a WR.
 

The Full Monte

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Some of what the above points to is that it's not rational to believe Brian got significantly worse at his job this year - the main problem is how much shittier the OL is. I suppose you could argue that the poor job they've done is being stubborn in light of how shitty the OL is.
I’m not exactly sure how to phrase this, but I actually think Brian DID get shittier at his job this year. Because he doesn’t actually have a clue what the fuck he’s doing. He’s mastered a simple system, but has no ability to modify that system when certain components needed to make that system successful don't exist in a given year.
 
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I’m not exactly sure how to phrase this, but I actually think Brian DID get shittier at his job this year. Because he doesn’t actually have a clue what the fuck he’s doing. He’s mastered a simple system, but has no ability to modify that system when certain components needed to make that system successful don't exist in a given year.
I see little evidence of mastery.
 

Alan Lomax

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I’m not exactly sure how to phrase this, but I actually think Brian DID get shittier at his job this year. Because he doesn’t actually have a clue what the fuck he’s doing. He’s mastered a simple system, but has no ability to modify that system when certain components needed to make that system successful don't exist in a given year.
To give Brian a little defense...to scheme out of the terrible line and quarterback play that Iowa has had this year would take a Walshian offensive brain.
 

Alan Lomax

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The fundamental problem is the KF and Brian believe in imposing their will upon the defense. We do our thing (OZ) no matter what, and we'll just execute better than our opponents.

Unfortunately when your opponent knows the play and how to defend it, you are no longer imposing your own will, you are imposing the defense's will upon yourself.
A quote from Tom Moore about football, “In football, you break the other team’s will through the relentless execution of fundamentals.” That sounds about right for someone Kirk describes as, “I don’t know if I have ever met anyone who knows more football than him and can teach it any better...”
 

Saul Berkley

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Exactly. This isn't like Tony Bennett at Virginia basketball where the team plays slow and boring but they're still efficient and grinding out wins. Iowa is playing poorly on offense in a way that makes things harder on their defense, not easier. Iowa is not grinding out tons of 15 play 7 minute drives that are boring to watch but eat up clock. Iowa had multiple 3 and outs on Saturday that took up less than 2 minutes of game time. That's awful on your defense.

Iowa isn't playing complementary football on offense, they're playing "hope to God your defense generates some turnovers or you're fucked" on offense.
Yep.

Wisconsin football is a great example of being conservative yet still very efficient. Iowa does not do that. I really wish they would just scrape the zone thing and get some big ass linemen and do the Wisconsin thing. We have the defense and ST most years to be really good.
 
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A quote from Tom Moore about football, “In football, you break the other team’s will through the relentless execution of fundamentals.” That sounds about right for someone Kirk describes as, “I don’t know if I have ever met anyone who knows more football than him and can teach it any better...”
That works, when you have a coherent offensive system that uses misdirection to repeatedly punish opponents who "perfectly" defend a play. Misdirection is a core part of the Shanahan zone blocking scheme because the system would be dogshit without it, but Brian treats any form of misdirection as a trick play that should be saved for special occasions.
 

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Yep.

Wisconsin football is a great example of being conservative yet still very efficient. Iowa does not do that. I really wish they would just scrape the zone thing and get some big ass linemen and do the Wisconsin thing. We have the defense and ST most years to be really good.
Here's the strange thing and I might be crazy but if you watch an NFL game you can tell that Brian is REALLY trying to mimic an NFL offense. Hell, he would likely be very effective. But the thing he doesn't understand is that he doesn't have those players. At all. Hence, he's retarded. Round peg, square hole and all that. He's way too cute. I'd love to have bull dozers and just physically impose on teams like Bert's Wisconsin teams. Instead we look they way we do. You can't run a pro scheme with a DeJong on the line or a Petras at quarterback.
 

Alan Lomax

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That works, when you have a coherent offensive system that uses misdirection to repeatedly punish opponents who "perfectly" defend a play. Misdirection is a core part of the Shanahan zone blocking scheme because the system would be dogshit without it, but Brian treats any form of misdirection as a trick play that should be saved for special occasions.
There was a flash of it on Saturday night, and I believed that the scales had fallen from his eyes for a moment. Alas, that moment was fleeting. I hope Brian is tied to a chair with eyelids kept open Clockwork Orange style watching the first two drives with Padilla.
 
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The fundamental problem imo, is the lack of execution all across the offense, especially at OL and QB.

There are many layers behind this issue but a combination of talent, lack of speed, youth/inexperience, at key positions have contributed to our offensive issues as a whole. We need to keep recruiting guys like Bruce and Johnson. The difference between those two vs the other three WRs is quite noticeable.

Petras has a live arm but given his inherent weaknesses and inability to mask our other deficiencies, we definitely need to move in another direction. Not sure if Padilla is the answer yet, but he seems much more decisive with the bball, can throw on the move and has good chemistry with the younger WRs.
 
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There was a flash of it on Saturday night, and I believed that the scales had fallen from his eyes for a moment. Alas, that moment was fleeting. I hope Brian is tied to a chair with eyelids kept open Clockwork Orange style watching the first two drives with Padilla.
Was Richman in the game for those two drives? Losing him hurt. Williams missed the hole and went right into the back of Richman’s leg.
 

The Full Monte

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Here's the strange thing and I might be crazy but if you watch an NFL game you can tell that Brian is REALLY trying to mimic an NFL offense. Hell, he would likely be very effective. But the thing he doesn't understand is that he doesn't have those players. At all. Hence, he's retarded. Round peg, square hole and all that. He's way too cute. I'd love to have bull dozers and just physically impose on teams like Bert's Wisconsin teams. Instead we look they way we do. You can't run a pro scheme with a DeJong on the line or a Petras at quarterback.
Brian is both stupid and arrogant. He believes all of his fathers success is also credited to him. When in fact, most of his professional career has been remarkably mediocre with chunks of it being downright abysmal
 

Saul Berkley

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Here's the strange thing and I might be crazy but if you watch an NFL game you can tell that Brian is REALLY trying to mimic an NFL offense. Hell, he would likely be very effective. But the thing he doesn't understand is that he doesn't have those players. At all. Hence, he's retarded. Round peg, square hole and all that. He's way too cute. I'd love to have bull dozers and just physically impose on teams like Bert's Wisconsin teams. Instead we look they way we do. You can't run a pro scheme with a DeJong on the line or a Petras at quarterback.
I would agree.

Oddly enough, it feels like (and I'd have to look it up) but the size of our OL has gone down over the years. Lots of 285 and 290 pounders in there now. Meanwhile, you see Wisconsin with their 330 pound plus monsters. Now, I know some of that has to do with the zone scheme we run but we have had plenty of OL in the past with 300 pounders. Not sure if it's just how it worked out or if they strategically want smaller OL.
 

The Dad

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Even in the NFL they are flexible and not stubbornly married to shit that’s not working. The Rams/TN game last night was a great example of it. TN was destroying Stafford in the pocket and at half they completely changed their game plan to use misdirection, screens and bootlegs to neutralize the pass rush. They still lost but moved the ball way more effectively after that.
 
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There was a flash of it on Saturday night, and I believed that the scales had fallen from his eyes for a moment. Alas, that moment was fleeting. I hope Brian is tied to a chair with eyelids kept open Clockwork Orange style watching the first two drives with Padilla.
There has always been games that give you hope. There's no reason to believe that we will see it 13/14 times a years because it's never been done before. There is always a handful of games where the "trick" plays get removed, and we just run the base zone stuff.
 

sergeanthulka

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To give Brian a little defense...to scheme out of the terrible line and quarterback play that Iowa has had this year would take a Walshian offensive brain.
Correct.
 

The Full Monte

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Even in the NFL they are flexible and not stubbornly married to shit that’s not working. The Rams/TN game last night was a great example of it. TN was destroying Stafford in the pocket and at half they completely changed their game plan to use misdirection, screens and bootlegs to neutralize the pass rush. They still lost but moved the ball way more effectively after that.
I just sensibly chuckled at the idea of an NFL coordinator being so stubbornly obtuse. That shit would last 4 minutes before one of those big motherfuckers ripped his fucking arms off
 

sergeanthulka

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Brian is both stupid and arrogant. He believes all of his fathers success is also credited to him. When in fact, most of his professional career has been remarkably mediocre with chunks of it being downright abysmal
You can’t love Kirk and think that Brian is stupid and arrogant.
 
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A quote from Tom Moore about football, “In football, you break the other team’s will through the relentless execution of fundamentals.” That sounds about right for someone Kirk describes as, “I don’t know if I have ever met anyone who knows more football than him and can teach it any better...”
 
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I would agree.

Oddly enough, it feels like (and I'd have to look it up) but the size of our OL has gone down over the years. Lots of 285 and 290 pounders in there now. Meanwhile, you see Wisconsin with their 330 pound plus monsters. Now, I know some of that has to do with the zone scheme we run but we have had plenty of OL in the past with 300 pounders. Not sure if it's just how it worked out or if they strategically want smaller OL.
While I agree with your post in some ways, UW’s biggest OL starter is 320#. They average 312 along the starting 5 and thru start 3 seniors on the OL.

Iowa- 294# average per most recent depth chart (without Richman)
 

Saul Berkley

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While I agree with your post in some ways, UW’s biggest OL starter is 320#. They average 312 along the starting 5 and thru start 3 seniors on the OL.

Iowa- 294# average per most recent depth chart (without Richman)
I think this is one of UW's smaller OLs IIRC. That being said, 312 is still quite a bit heavier than 294.

I still think the zone scheme is part of what hurts us along with Goodson being an "all or nothing" style back. Then top it off with the shittiest RT I've ever seen at Iowa and you have this clusterfuck of a run game.
 

CamelTones

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People look at Wisconsin’s line and style and want that and it makes sense because it works for them. But other programs have tried it and failed. They scheme it so well and have elite talent at running back.

It’s hard to take anything away from the 2020 COVID season, but Iowa ran all over teams with their zone concepts. The scheme isn’t the problem, the talent up front is. DeJong has been listed on the depth chart going all the way back to when he was a true freshman walk-on. That’s not good.

For them to make progress offensively they have got to be better on 1st down. Padilla being able to move the pocket hopefully allows that to happen.
 

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As an aside, I do not like the application of “conservative” in regards to our offense. To me, conservative means always running the plays/making the decisions with a higher likelihood of success. We don’t do that.
The conservative thing to do when up 2 scores with 30 minutes left and a quarterback who can throw for first downs is to call plays where he can throw for first downs and keep the drives alive. The riskier approach is to shut down the offense and hope your D holds on.
In the Kirk 1.0 days it used to drive me crazy as well. Down 7 with 3 minutes left, ball at the opponents 45 with 4th and inches, the conservative approach is to try to get six inches and keep the drive going. The radical approach is to net 25 yards on a punt, hope the defense gets a 3 and out so you can fair catch a punt and then try an 80 yard TD drive with 1:22 on the clock and no timeouts.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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People look at Wisconsin’s line and style and want that and it makes sense because it works for them. But other programs have tried it and failed. They scheme it so well and have elite talent at running back.

It’s hard to take anything away from the 2020 COVID season, but Iowa ran all over teams with their zone concepts. The scheme isn’t the problem, the talent up front is. DeJong has been listed on the depth chart going all the way back to when he was a true freshman walk-on. That’s not good.

For them to make progress offensively they have got to be better on 1st down. Padilla being able to move the pocket hopefully allows that to happen.
I don’t think there is anything inherently better about gap scheme or zone scheme. Wisconsin has absolutely been good because they have had better talent at RB and WR. I also think they have also historically done a better job of protecting their base plays with different wrinkles. Last year was the most of that stuff I can remember at Iowa. I would guess that this years play calling is reflective of the inexperience of the line and wr, the inabilities of the qb, and Kirks strong preference to minimize mistakes over taking risks.

I think his calculus that way is a little bit off and it makes things more difficult for the line.
 

Saul Berkley

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I don’t think there is anything inherently better about gap scheme or zone scheme. Wisconsin has absolutely been good because they have had better talent at RB and WR. I also think they have also historically done a better job of protecting their base plays with different wrinkles. Last year was the most of that stuff I can remember at Iowa. I would guess that this years play calling is reflective of the inexperience of the line and wr, the inabilities of the qb, and Kirks strong preference to minimize mistakes over taking risks.

I think his calculus that way is a little bit off and it makes things more difficult for the line.
For the most part, I agree with this. RB is the clear difference between the two programs. Somehow, they always seem to find a stud RB and now it appears to be Allen. It might take them a year or two to find one, but they rarely go longer than that.

One nitpick is have they really been better at WR? Outside of Cephus, I'm not sure that's the case. I'd say they are fairly comparable but I could be forgetting some of their guys.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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For the most part, I agree with this. RB is the clear difference between the two programs. Somehow, they always seem to find a stud RB and now it appears to be Allen. It might take them a year or two to find one, but they rarely go longer than that.

One nitpick is have they really been better at WR? Outside of Cephus, I'm not sure that's the case. I'd say they are fairly comparable but I could be forgetting some of their guys.
You are right it has mostly been RB. Cephus is the only major difference, although Iowa was a train wreck in 16.
 
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I don’t think there is anything inherently better about gap scheme or zone scheme. Wisconsin has absolutely been good because they have had better talent at RB and WR. I also think they have also historically done a better job of protecting their base plays with different wrinkles. Last year was the most of that stuff I can remember at Iowa. I would guess that this years play calling is reflective of the inexperience of the line and wr, the inabilities of the qb, and Kirks strong preference to minimize mistakes over taking risks.

I think his calculus that way is a little bit off and it makes things more difficult for the line.
FYI, Wisconsin has been employing mostly the zone concept this year.
 

Rolo Tomassi

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Most fans will claim they are booing the decision to start him, but not Peaches.
It doesn't really matter what most fans would say. How would you like to be Petras and run onto the field to a loud chorus of boos? Would it make you feel any better knowing they weren't booing you, but were booing the decision to put you into the game? Uh, no. You'd still feel like shit.
 

cloudhawk

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It doesn't really matter what most fans would say. How would you like to be Petras and run onto the field to a loud chorus of boos? Would it make you feel any better knowing they weren't booing you, but were booing the decision to put you into the game? Uh, no. You'd still feel like shit.
That's football
 
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It doesn't really matter what most fans would say. How would you like to be Petras and run onto the field to a loud chorus of boos? Would it make you feel any better knowing they weren't booing you, but were booing the decision to put you into the game? Uh, no. You'd still feel like shit.
Sucks to suck.
 

The Full Monte

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I think Padilla’s performance vs NW was better than it looks on paper:


478A51B1-8165-4B7C-8D36-345961B41692.png
 
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