Rutgers @ Iowa Basketball Thread ~ 2/10/21 ~ 6:30pm ~ BTN

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
All valid, Dougie.

Trying to think of better back up PGs we've had in my lifetime, however. I suppose I can dmofr.
Better or more potential? He clearly has more potential, but I think Clemmons was "better" (at least when he was a Junior/Senior).

He also struggled big time his Sophomore year after starting his Freshman year for some of the time. Toussaint wouldn't be the first to struggle like this.

It is a pretty low bar though when talking about best backup PG's. Fran has obviously had struggles landing them in recruiting and Lick was an abomination. I can't hardly remember the Alford years at this point. Was Chauncey a backup?

Maybe Luehrsmann or Jason Price.
 

L. Wade Childress

Has no idea what you are asking
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
60,829
Reaction score
-13,403
Well, Ulis decided to attack Johnson in the paint. It was not a great decision that ended poorly. As frustrating as it can be to watch bohannon bring the ball up against pressure, he doesn’t usually make some of the blatant bad decisions that other guys do. Only really bad one I remember was when he tried to throw a 5 foot bounce pass to a completely guarded Murray. The ball he dribbled out of bounds before the under 4 minute timeout was more fluke than anything.

I really don’t understand Frans substitutions though. Is it really that hard to stagger subs with the starters so at least 2 or 3 are on the floor at all times?
was Ulis drive not at the end of the shot clock?
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
Talking about back up PG's has me thinking and laughing about one of the nightmare moments of Fran's tenure when I just shook my head at how bad the PG situation had gotten.

Great game going in South Dakota against Colorado, but he had to take bohannon out fairly early in the first half. He subs in Brady Ellingson who is trying to bring the ball up the court while being hounded by McKinley Wright. It looked like a 2nd grader trying to dribble against Michael Jordan and of course he gets ripped and they get a layup. I think they tried to inbound it to him and he couldn't get open and Fran yanked him out of the game. Here is the box score....

Screenshot 2021-02-10 at 10.58.57 PM.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBK

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
Holy shit that box score. Freshman Jack Nunge was starting over fellow freshman Luka Garza.

Fast forward from 2017 to 2021 and Garza is all the back to back consensus All-American, likely Naismith POTY and all time Iowa scoring record holder and Nunge is still a Sophomore.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,382
Reaction score
-810
Talking about back up PG's has me thinking and laughing about one of the nightmare moments of Fran's tenure when I just shook my head at how bad the PG situation had gotten.

Great game going in South Dakota against Colorado, but he had to take bohannon out fairly early in the first half. He subs in Brady Ellingson who is trying to bring the ball up the court while being hounded by McKinley Wright. It looked like a 2nd grader trying to dribble against Michael Jordan and of course he gets ripped and they get a layup. I think they tried to inbound it to him and he couldn't get open and Fran yanked him out of the game. Here is the box score....

View attachment 25936
The low point for me will always be those Cayman Island Classic games. I think it was Louisiana that was a pressing team and something similar happened with Ellingson not being able to get the ball past half court. On top of that I think I had to spend $10 or $15 bucks to watch that garbage on some app I had never heard of.
 

BBK

THE GRINGOOOOO
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
65,152
Reaction score
-34,606
Better or more potential? He clearly has more potential, but I think Clemmons was "better" (at least when he was a Junior/Senior).

He also struggled big time his Sophomore year after starting his Freshman year for some of the time. Toussaint wouldn't be the first to struggle like this.

It is a pretty low bar though when talking about best backup PG's. Fran has obviously had struggles landing them in recruiting and Lick was an abomination. I can't hardly remember the Alford years at this point. Was Chauncey a backup?

Maybe Luehrsmann or Jason Price.
My first two thoughts without looking were Luehrsmann and Mon'ter Glasper. :D

Statistically, Touissant and Clemmons are pretty similar up to this point. But JoeT would have two more years. I'd maybe like to see how it plays out rather than possibly getting minutes from the Trigga Treys or Cesar Salads ("they call me that cuz I like to shake it up") of this world.
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
My first two thoughts without looking were Luehrsmann and Mon'ter Glasper. :D

Statistically, Touissant and Clemmons are pretty similar up to this point. But JoeT would have two more years. I'd maybe like to see how it plays out rather than possibly getting minutes from the Trigga Treys or Cesar Salads ("they call me that cuz I like to shake it up") of this world.
I honestly don't think Iowa is in much danger of losing Toussaint. Fran has some historical reference for him (Clemmons) along with the reality is that he is going to play and play a lot his last 2 years. It is him and Ulis at PG and maybe Connor backing them up if needed. Maybe Perkins in some situations.
 

CamelTones

Has Shoved A Live Shrimp Up His Ass
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
21,212
Reaction score
-5,211
Didn't help that Young was fouling him all the way down the lane and he was already off balance when he went up. I actually like the decision considering how aggressive Young had been playing and that Iowa was in the bonus. That's a foul a majority of the time.

bohannon's turnover was a fluke, LOL. I'm in the bohannon needs rest and Ulis is the best option camp.
By fluke I mean they were starting to run clock at that point and he was just standing dribbling the ball back and forth and missed his right hand.
 

CamelTones

Has Shoved A Live Shrimp Up His Ass
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
21,212
Reaction score
-5,211
Talking about back up PG's has me thinking and laughing about one of the nightmare moments of Fran's tenure when I just shook my head at how bad the PG situation had gotten.

Great game going in South Dakota against Colorado, but he had to take bohannon out fairly early in the first half. He subs in Brady Ellingson who is trying to bring the ball up the court while being hounded by McKinley Wright. It looked like a 2nd grader trying to dribble against Michael Jordan and of course he gets ripped and they get a layup. I think they tried to inbound it to him and he couldn't get open and Fran yanked him out of the game. Here is the box score....

View attachment 25936
I still don't understand how that team (and the conference as a whole) were so shitty. Only explanation is they didn't have a legit small forward.

25 minutes for Pemsl. 16 total for Kriener and Garza.
 

rodg12

Might not need to GFH
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
1,980
Reaction score
1,162
I still don't understand how that team (and the conference as a whole) were so shitty. Only explanation is they didn't have a legit small forward.

25 minutes for Pemsl. 16 total for Kriener and Garza.
The defense was terrible. They gave up 83/game in conference.
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
I still don't understand how that team (and the conference as a whole) were so shitty. Only explanation is they didn't have a legit small forward.

25 minutes for Pemsl. 16 total for Kriener and Garza.
It was almost all lack of another PG and having a small forward. They were so bad on defense and I think were down 20+ in ever road game they played.

That team won 14 games and basically added Connor and Wieskamp and instantly was an NCAA tournament team and a bucket away from the Sweet 16 the next year.
 

MikeyJoe

Has a Big Head
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65,373
Reaction score
-32,625
Toussaint's offensive rating right now is 92.3. Every other player is above 111 which is remarkable. In Big Ten games his rating is 86.3 while everyone else is above 103.

He has 17 turnovers in 122 Big Ten minutes. He's shooting 37% from 2 and 0-3 from 3 plus 68% from the line with two late misses that led to a loss. Committing 7 fouls per 40 minutes.
The other big problem with Joe T on the court is his utilization. Despite having the worst offensive efficiency on the team, when he's on the court, he's second in usage only to Garza in terms of taking up possessions. It'd be one thing if he primarily used his speed and athleticism to create for other people, but he tries to do way too much.
 

nolookpass

Feels the Bern
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
76,717
Reaction score
-73,569
Weiskamps inbounds pass to JoeT was turrible, leading him right into a double team. JoeT plays better when he gets more minutes, like vs MSU. He does try to do too much when hes getting spot minutes. I hope he stays but couldnt fault him for leaving.
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
Weiskamps inbounds pass to JoeT was turrible, leading him right into a double team. JoeT plays better when he gets more minutes, like vs MSU. He does try to do too much when hes getting spot minutes. I hope he stays but couldnt fault him for leaving.
You're a dumbass.
 

Revolver

Will Ruin Your Thread and Crush Your Dreams
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
27,893
Reaction score
-26,117
If I’m talking Iowa Basketball with someone and their main gripe about the team is Joe T. not logging more minutes, the conversation is basically a non-starter going forward for me. It’s the Olaseni over Woodbury shit all over again.
 

MikeyJoe

Has a Big Head
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65,373
Reaction score
-32,625
And even with that said, yeah he played well in the MSU game but that was his first good game in a month, and he had a couple games in there where he played 13-15 minutes.
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
Toussaint is a true sophomore on a Top 5 level team that is filled with upper class or guys who are better and been there longer.

All there is or was ever going to be is limited minutes for Toussaint. He needs to do everything to maximize his time and play his role, and he has done a very poor job at that.

Iowa doesn't have the minutes to throw him out there and just let him "do his thing" and live with the mistakes.
 

douglasbader

Posts “Hawks by a million” on Facebook
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
104,622
Reaction score
-39,593
And even with that said, yeah he played well in the MSU game but that was his first good game in a month, and he had a couple games in there where he played 13-15 minutes.
Honestly, he was also his typical shitty self in the first half of the MSU game as well. The difference was bohannon and others were so bad that he was able to stay out there in the second half and made a few good plays and played decent defense.

None of this is sour grapes or wanting to be right on this side. Toussaint's numbers clearly show he is one of the worst players overall on the team this year. What is sour grapes or wanting to be right is pretending that he is some poor victim of Fran's kids and you wouldn't blame him if he transferred.
 

MikeyJoe

Has a Big Head
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65,373
Reaction score
-32,625
If I’m talking Iowa Basketball with someone and their main gripe about the team is Joe T. not logging more minutes, the conversation is basically a non-starter going forward for me. It’s the Olaseni over Woodbury shit all over again.
Two players:

1613056920527.png

Player B is a slightly better shooter, far better rebounder, turns it over crazy less often, and fouls less. Player A gets slightly more assists and way more steals.

Player A is WHY DOESN'T HE GET MORE MINUTES Joe T, Player B is Twitter whipping boy Connor McCaffery.
 

L. Wade Childress

Has no idea what you are asking
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
60,829
Reaction score
-13,403
Two players:

View attachment 25938

Player B is a slightly better shooter, far better rebounder, turns it over crazy less often, and fouls less. Player A gets slightly more assists and way more steals.

Player A is WHY DOESN'T HE GET MORE MINUTES Joe T, Player B is Twitter whipping boy Connor McCaffery.
basketball isn’t played in an excel spreadsheet, it’s played in a tv.
 

The Dad

Legitimately Bald Forever and Stupid Looking
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
24,132
Reaction score
-10,780
The only thing worse than trying to inbound to a double teamed guard 79 feet away from the hoop with 3.9 seconds left is the fucking abomination they tried to run at the end of the Indiana game.
 

Shawneemicks

Probably Needs to GFH
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
8,015
Reaction score
627
Toussaint is a true sophomore on a Top 5 level team that is filled with upper class or guys who are better and been there longer.

All there is or was ever going to be is limited minutes for Toussaint. He needs to do everything to maximize his time and play his role, and he has done a very poor job at that.

Iowa doesn't have the minutes to throw him out there and just let him "do his thing" and live with the mistakes.
🤨🤨
 

AZmess

Loved and Defended The Criminal Until the Bitter End
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
34,894
Reaction score
-15,880
Weiskamps inbounds pass to JoeT was turrible, leading him right into a double team. JoeT plays better when he gets more minutes, like vs MSU. He does try to do too much when hes getting spot minutes. I hope he stays but couldnt fault him for leaving.
Lol I knew that was going to be your reasoning. Newsflash: you don’t get more PT by playing shitty.
 

Thomas Wolsey

Likes Your Post
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
12,925
Reaction score
2,546
Idk how anyone could have watched the last 10 games and decided Toussaint needs more minutes. Perkins and Ulis? I could be talked into that, but that is probably not backed by stats either.
 

Shawneemicks

Probably Needs to GFH
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
8,015
Reaction score
627
NLP is just used to how things work politically when the QOP person says some really stupid, shitty stuff they get more coverage on Fox News.
He thought it translated to basketball I’d imagine
 

Thomas Wolsey

Likes Your Post
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
12,925
Reaction score
2,546
I know long 2s aren’t the most efficient shot but I think Joe being aggressive on those screens and then not burying himself in the lane was great to see. It seems like he has done more of that recently.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
7,065
Reaction score
-2,707
Yeah. The game started on the Fox Sports App
I got home from work last night and started to watch off the DVR. Showing the overtimes instead. Fine. Go to the Firestick and pull up the Fox Sports App. They have to start the replay from the beginning, right?

Fuck, no. The replay on the app started with 4 or 5 minutes left in the first half. Same as my DVR recording which I do understand, but not the replay on the app. WTF.
 

MikeyJoe

Has a Big Head
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65,373
Reaction score
-32,625
I also acknowledge that a scouting report would account for stops, which Joe T is undoubtedly better at. However, when people talk about how much better he is at defense, they often don't account for how much worse is he is at fouling.
 

Thomas Wolsey

Likes Your Post
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
12,925
Reaction score
2,546
I also acknowledge that a scouting report would account for stops, which Joe T is undoubtedly better at. However, when people talk about how much better he is at defense, they often don't account for how much worse is he is at fouling.
If he could somewhat reliably make wide open shots he would be much tougher to guard and he wouldn’t have to press so much. Maybe next year.
 

Fritz Fequiere

Has a Master's from ISU worth millions
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
-1,359
I tried telling you guys early last year when everybody had a boner for him that Toussaint would never be a starting pg at Iowa. Take a look across the country for serviceable sub-6ft pgs who can't shoot. I can't think of any. Had hopes he could be a spark plug off the bench but even that's looking doubtful. Spazzes don't simply unlearn how to be spazzes and Fran's system is predicated on a pg understanding motion offense, which he clearly does not.

Unlike future NFl player Spencer Petras, I'm not seeing much potential for growth from Joe T.
 

The Dad

Legitimately Bald Forever and Stupid Looking
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
24,132
Reaction score
-10,780
Part of Joe’s problem is that he knows his minutes are limited so he is pushing every second he’s out there. He can’t afford to let the game come to him. Trying to do too much leads to fucking up which leads to getting yanked. A tale as old as time.
 

nolookpass

Feels the Bern
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
76,717
Reaction score
-73,569
Lol I knew that was going to be your reasoning. Newsflash: you don’t get more PT by playing shitty.
newsflash coach, you dont get better playing 2-4 minutes. he played very well vs MSU and got 4 minutes next game.
 

nolookpass

Feels the Bern
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
76,717
Reaction score
-73,569
Part of Joe’s problem is that he knows his minutes are limited so he is pushing every second he’s out there. He can’t afford to let the game come to him. Trying to do too much leads to fucking up which leads to getting yanked. A tale as old as time.
no kidding. surprised some of these hoops gurus dont understand that.
 

The Incredible Hawk

Will Spineboard You
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
18,108
Reaction score
-3,193
Pretty sure it's a plantar deal. Those suck. Had it. You have to wait it out with cortisone shots in the arch of the foot, or they reattach it surgically.
Doesn’t @Deez have some insider! info on the injury? He said it can’t get any worse, so that would rule out the plantar fascia unless he’s already completely torn it.
 
Top