Would you let The Criminal go?

Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
9,669
Reaction score
-464
...if three players transfer?

Advantages:
-Stop the bleeding, and get someone who can recruit
-Get some energy surrounding the program, even though Lick was a good coach a Butler...you don't see people energized (of course they were energized for Alford).
-If three players leave this year, and next year is bad as well, and The Criminal is eventually let go, you're wasting more years.
-Admit that it wasn't a good fit/move on.

Disadvantages:
-Loyalty issues
-Not his fault, most of the players are Alford's.
-Needs more than two years.
 

Debit One

Chad
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
30,532
Reaction score
11,639
Firing The Criminal does not stop any bleeding, You can make the argument that he isn't the right guy if you want, but firing him does not stop any bleeding.
 

newsbreaker

Got the top grade in his torts class
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
94,981
Reaction score
12,236
No.

The fact is that someone better qualified to win at Iowa isn't coming, isn't available, and isn't interested. We're far better off riding this horse a bit further to see if it can run.
 

Gushawk

Likely a Russian Bot Account
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
88,349
Reaction score
10,361
Firing The Criminal does not stop any bleeding, You can make the argument that he isn't the right guy if you want, but firing him does not stop any bleeding.
I disagree. It depends upon how you view the team's near term prospects and his likely ultimate fate. If you think he's almost certainly gone within the next two seasons due to continued poor results on the court, cutting the cord now would have significant potential to stop the bleeding. As bad as the state of the program is now, there's still some additional blood left to lose prior to the time that a successor takes over.
 

Debit One

Chad
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
30,532
Reaction score
11,639
Firing The Criminal does not stop any bleeding, You can make the argument that he isn't the right guy if you want, but firing him does not stop any bleeding.
I disagree. It depends upon how you view the team's near term prospects and his likely ultimate fate. If you think he's almost certainly gone within the next two seasons due to continued poor results on the court, cutting the cord now would have significant potential to stop the bleeding. As bad as the state of the program is now, there's still some additional blood left to lose prior to the time that a successor takes over.
I can agree with this, counselor.

The tough question that Gary Barta must answer is whether The Criminal is the right guy for a rebuilding program. It's quite possible that Lick is a great coach but not a rebuilder due to not being the sort of flashy personality who will attract recruits and excite fans.

And, if you're Barta, if you do not believe that Lick is the right guy to rebuild this do you have the stones to a) admit that you hired the wrong guy, b) fire a former national coach of the year after two seasons, and c) deal with the fact that it would not be easy to hire someone into this situation after firing Lick after just two seasons?

I do not think that Barta can pull the trigger on Lick, no matter what he thinks.
 
Last edited:

OlePeep

The Conductor
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
10,296
Reaction score
-6,109
Agree w/ debit. Absent malfeasance of some kind, I think any coach should get at least 3 yrs to show he's got some moves. If these guys are gone, and Lick has no rabbit to pull out of his hat, year three doesn't look very pretty from here, however.
 

IowaWigman

Probably Needs to GFH
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
2,651
Reaction score
506
Agree w/ debit. Absent malfeasance of some kind, I think any coach should get at least 3 yrs to show he's got some moves. If these guys are gone, and Lick has no rabbit to pull out of his hat, year three doesn't look very pretty from here, however.
If you look at our current roster, the level of recruits we have signed or have committed over the next two years, and the talent level of recruits that are showing interest in Iowa, I can't fathom how anyone can look at Iowa basketball and say we are going to be making some serious strides in the next two years.

Lick has not shown any indication in two years that he can bring in the type of talent that is required to compete or that can rebuild a program. How can you walk into a recruit's house and sell him on Iowa basketball when (apparently) your most talented players are transferring?

Since the middle of this season, my opinion has been if we are as bad of a team in year 3 as in year 2 (same record in Big 10), that he should be fired. It shouldn't take 4 or more years to show improvements in the win column in basketball.
 

Gushawk

Likely a Russian Bot Account
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
88,349
Reaction score
10,361
I completely hear everything you're saying Debit and Peep. However, if these transfers go down, I think it's safe to say that we know what's going to happen next year on the court (at least in terms of upside, which I think is something like a 30% winning percentage in conference), and we'll just be keeping him around as a formality out of some sense of obligation based on what is perceived to constitute "good form" when it comes to decisions on coaches.
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
I completely hear everything you're saying Debit and Peep. However, if these transfers go down, I think it's safe to say that we know what's going to happen next year on the court (at least in terms of upside, which I think is something like a 30% winning percentage in conference), and we'll just be keeping him around as a formality out of some sense of obligation based on what is perceived to constitute "good form" when it comes to decisions on coaches.

but where does the money come from to can him? he's got 5 MORE years left on his deal. i'm not sure what the buyout procedure is in his contract, but it seems to me that it would be quite a price. i doubt they fire him for at least 2 years. (i wish he was never hired)
 

Gushawk

Likely a Russian Bot Account
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
88,349
Reaction score
10,361
Programs committed to winning find ways to get rid of non-performing coaches with several years left on their deals.
 

newsbreaker

Got the top grade in his torts class
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
94,981
Reaction score
12,236
Programs committed to winning find ways to get rid of non-performing coaches with several years left on their deals.
If Mikey's claim that the renovations/practice facility are on hold (and as of a month ago we were only about 5 million short), then how do we do this, when we can't get that last 5 million for something needed so badly?
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
Programs committed to winning find ways to get rid of non-performing coaches with several years left on their deals.
If Mikey's claim that the renovations/practice facility are on hold (and as of a month ago we were only about 5 million short), then how do we do this, when we can't get that last 5 million for something needed so badly?

maybe the practice facility money will be used to can lick? ;)
 

scottsdalehawk

Buckled Up
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
12,641
Reaction score
-819
So did these guys leave because of Lick as in they do not like him? That would make a difference in my answer. I know Kelly wants to go back home but I'd guess he would be willing to stay if Iowa's future was a bit brighter.
 

HawkLax6

Thinks the 2 Deeps Matter
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
28,690
Reaction score
-10,546
I really want the Duez Henderson/Jason Price co-coach duo in the near future.
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
I really want the Duez Henderson/Jason Price co-coach duo in the near future.

i actually like duez henderson. saw him a couple times in the PTL a couple years ago and he was great.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
6,160
Reaction score
-15

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
i knew when the 2008 class was final that the lick experiment wasn't going to work. when you have 7 open scholarships and bring in this group of 6:

Devan BawinkelSG
Andrew BrommerPF
Jermain DavisSG
Aaron FullerSF
Matt GatensSG
Anthony TuckerSG

to compete in the big 10.... you're in trouble.
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
 

HawkLax6

Thinks the 2 Deeps Matter
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
28,690
Reaction score
-10,546

Bovert

Fat ISU Fan
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
13,746
Reaction score
-5,809
i knew when the 2008 class was final that the lick experiment wasn't going to work. when you have 7 open scholarships and bring in this group of 6:

Devan BawinkelSG
Andrew BrommerPF
Jermain DavisSG
Aaron FullerSF
Matt GatensSG
Anthony TuckerSG

to compete in the big 10.... you're in trouble.
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
I would consider the "head up their ass crew" to be the ones who seem to be reveling in the fact that the Iowa basketball program might be going to hell, because they think it somehow makes all their idiotic complaining and naysaying more prescient.
 

HawkLax6

Thinks the 2 Deeps Matter
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
28,690
Reaction score
-10,546
i knew when the 2008 class was final that the lick experiment wasn't going to work. when you have 7 open scholarships and bring in this group of 6:

Devan BawinkelSG
Andrew BrommerPF
Jermain DavisSG
Aaron FullerSF
Matt GatensSG
Anthony TuckerSG

to compete in the big 10.... you're in trouble.
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
Just because I thought the team would go 31-0 doesn't mean my head was up my ass.......
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
I would consider the "head up their ass crew" to be the ones who seem to be reveling in the fact that the Iowa basketball program might be going to hell, because they think it somehow makes all their idiotic complaining and naysaying more prescient.

it seems the 'idiotic complaining and naysaying' might have been a tad realistic... and if you think anyone is happy that the program is going to hell, you are sadly mistaken. i wish the program was playing this weekend, and i'm sure everyone here does too.
 

Bovert

Fat ISU Fan
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
13,746
Reaction score
-5,809
i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
I would consider the "head up their ass crew" to be the ones who seem to be reveling in the fact that the Iowa basketball program might be going to hell, because they think it somehow makes all their idiotic complaining and naysaying more prescient.

it seems the 'idiotic complaining and naysaying' might have been a tad realistic... and if you think anyone is happy that the program is going to hell, you are sadly mistaken. i wish the program was playing this weekend, and i'm sure everyone here does too.
Translation: I knew The Criminal sucked!! Even though I was only bitching about his system and style of play and had no idea players were going to transfer after the season, these players transferring proves I was right!!
 

Jim

Enjoys Birding
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
10,166
Reaction score
8,252
i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
I demand to be part of this group.
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
I would consider the "head up their ass crew" to be the ones who seem to be reveling in the fact that the Iowa basketball program might be going to hell, because they think it somehow makes all their idiotic complaining and naysaying more prescient.

it seems the 'idiotic complaining and naysaying' might have been a tad realistic... and if you think anyone is happy that the program is going to hell, you are sadly mistaken. i wish the program was playing this weekend, and i'm sure everyone here does too.
Translation: I knew The Criminal sucked!!
the 2008 recruiting class should have been your biggest clue.
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
Stupid fucker Jim had his head so far up his ass that i forgot to even mention him as part of the group. ;)
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681
it seems the 'idiotic complaining and naysaying' might have been a tad realistic... and if you think anyone is happy that the program is going to hell, you are sadly mistaken. i wish the program was playing this weekend, and i'm sure everyone here does too.
Translation: I knew The Criminal sucked!!
the 2008 recruiting class should have been your biggest clue.

and p.s. it is not like i 'know' The Criminal sucks.

and p.p.s. if you think this team was gonna be good even if these players didn't/don't leave, well then... :rotf::rotf::rotf:
 

Jim

Enjoys Birding
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
10,166
Reaction score
8,252
Stupid fucker Jim had his head so far up his ass that i forgot to even mention him as part of the group. ;)
Thank you. Jeez.

If Kelly leaves, then I don't think they make the Big Dance next year. Just throwing it out there.
 

Jim

Enjoys Birding
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
10,166
Reaction score
8,252

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681

hawkstud44

Needs to GFH
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
423
Reaction score
72
i knew when the 2008 class was final that the lick experiment wasn't going to work. when you have 7 open scholarships and bring in this group of 6:

Devan BawinkelSG
Andrew BrommerPF
Jermain DavisSG
Aaron FullerSF
Matt GatensSG
Anthony TuckerSG

to compete in the big 10.... you're in trouble.
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
fuck off you fucking troll.
 

castichawk24

Is Well Liked Here
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
17,898
Reaction score
-7,681

StinkyMcFadden

She/Her
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
48,731
Reaction score
-17,317
On a positve note, I have been unbanned from Rivals.

I will now stalk QuadCityHawk's posts.

As far as Iowa bball goes, we're fucked.

This late in the game, you can expect Lick to roll a big ol' panel truck with the words "MOSTLY SHITTY BBALL PLAYERS" on the side.

Who in their right mind would come here right now? Creekmur no longer being committed shows how absolutely and totally screwed we are right now. He's a marginal Big 10 player at best according to most and he decided he could probably find a better situation than Iowa.

We are what Northwestern used to be.

The bad part is, I think he can actually coach, but recruiting is over 1/2 the battle and he doesn't appear to equipped to fight. He did well at Butler and was National coach of the year. It all looked good on paper.

It's like dating a smoking hot chick and finding out she has no vagina due to an unfortunate birth defect.
 
Last edited:

PipeDaddy

Nanny State Leach Enabler
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
38,060
Reaction score
-6,615
There are posters who will still be penciling Iowa into the 2010 NCAA tournament.

i'm not so sure. the 2010 record prediction thread should be interesting. the head up their ass crew (HawkLax6, Hawkstud44, Bovert, PipeDaddy) may have changed their mind by then.
I would consider the "head up their ass crew" to be the ones who seem to be reveling in the fact that the Iowa basketball program might be going to hell, because they think it somehow makes all their idiotic complaining and naysaying more prescient.
I've got to agree. Our thoughts were based upon knowledge at the time. Obviously if there is a mass transfer that will be taking place then that would significantly change the future. And would raise new questions about Lick that would need some serious scrutiny.

I'll stand by what I've said - Gatens, Tucker, Kelly, Peterson, and Fuller are a decent nucleus. Probably a middle tier next year if relatively healthy.
 

PipeDaddy

Nanny State Leach Enabler
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
38,060
Reaction score
-6,615
Mid tier as in 5-7 range of the conference next season.

It looks like its immaterial now, but the team this season would have been better than NW, Penn St, Indiana, and probably Wisconsin with a healthy team the whole way.
 

HawkLax6

Thinks the 2 Deeps Matter
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
28,690
Reaction score
-10,546
It looks like its immaterial now, but the team this season would have been better than NW, Penn St, Indiana, and probably Wisconsin with a healthy team the whole way.
Um, we did finish better than Indiana this season.
 

PipeDaddy

Nanny State Leach Enabler
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
38,060
Reaction score
-6,615
It looks like its immaterial now, but the team this season would have been better than NW, Penn St, Indiana, and probably Wisconsin with a healthy team the whole way.
Um, we did finish better than Indiana this season.
I was just listing them all, as in I think we'd have finished 7th this season with a healthy team.
 
Top