Banks vs Vandy

[L. Wade Childress]

McNutt is going to end up with twice as many catches as Clark and 3x as many TD's

 

[PipeDaddy]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

The thing that stands out most in your post is that the teams you mentioned for Banks were all good teams. PSU finished #15, USC #4, and ISU just outside the top 25.
Also, they scored a lot in the PSU game, and still managed to win the game. The defense was responsible for letting PSU back in it.

One thing I should clarify about the crapping the bed comment, though, is that JVB doesn't throw INT's in those situations so it may not be as obvious. He'll take a crucial sack instead, or dump it off for a 3 yard gain on 3 and 13, etc.

Of the Iowa QB's of the 2000's, I'd rank them this way for now. (JVB could move up next year).

1. Banks
2. Tate
3. Stanzi
4. JVB
5. Chandler
6. McCann
7. Christensen

Can we drop Christensen a couple of spots?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

The thing that stands out most in your post is that the teams you mentioned for Banks were all good teams. PSU finished #15, USC #4, and ISU just outside the top 25.
Also, they scored a lot in the PSU game, and still managed to win the game. The defense was responsible for letting PSU back in it.

One thing I should clarify about the crapping the bed comment, though, is that JVB doesn't throw INT's in those situations so it may not be as obvious. He'll take a crucial sack instead, or dump it off for a 3 yard gain on 3 and 13, etc.

Of the Iowa QB's of the 2000's, I'd rank them this way for now. (JVB could move up next year).

1. Banks
2. Tate
3. Stanzi
4. JVB
5. Chandler
6. McCann
7. Christensen

Can we drop Christensen a couple of spots?

he tried putting him in the #10 spot, but came up a little short.

 

[Monster]

I get that, but JVB has arguably the best WR in Iowa football history making circus catches all over the field. Lets not act like he's got Don Nordmann as his #1.

Didn't Banks have the Mackey award winner?

Yes, but I'm not the one making the "Banks played with the greatest team ever" argument.

Neither am I. I'm saying that the team Banks played on was much more talented than the team JVB plays on. Which of that do you disagree with?

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

This is a ridiculous argument. Banks really only had one year to prove himself, so it is impossible to compare him outside of a single season sample size.

Now if that's what you are arguing then you're fucking crazy. Step outside the stats for a second and let your eyes and memory go to work. First team AA, Davey O'Brien, AP college football poy. You're going to compare that to a qb who got beat by Minnesota? Who is going to be at best 2nd team all Big 10?

 

[atemp]

I don't know why people rip on Brad Banks. Maybe they understand the complicated nuances of football like the uber-intellectuals that coach football. Only Chuck Long threw more touchdown passes (27) in 1985, and Banks threw one less touchdown (26) on approximately 100 less attempts in 2002.

Only four Iowa quarterbacks have thrown for more yards in a single season: Long, Hartlieb, Tate, and Stanzi, and Stanzi passed for only 500 more yards while having approximately 100 more attempts.

Next thing you know, people will be talking about how Matt Sherman could've had the numbers that Banks had. Oh it was all the offensive line!

 

[douglasbader]

Eric May fucking sucks.

 

[Thagoods]

Didn't Banks have the Mackey award winner?

Yes, but I'm not the one making the "Banks played with the greatest team ever" argument.

Neither am I. I'm saying that the team Banks played on was much more talented than the team JVB plays on. Which of that do you disagree with?

None of it, but I also think that Banks was a huge part of the reason that team was so much better. (Davey 'O Brien winner, AP Player of the year, runner up in Heisman voting)

Vandy plays on an average team, and has an average record, with losses to Minnesota, ISU, and a game against PSU that he looked like Christensen's little brother.

 

[Monster]

And here we are using wins as the measuring stick for a QBs success.

 

[atemp]

And here we are using wins as the measuring stick for a QBs success.

What other variables or (dependent variable) do you want to use? Maybe you could put together a multiple regression for us and hypothesize the explanatory independent variables that have high confidence intervals.

 

[Monster]

And here we are using wins as the measuring stick for a QBs success.

What other variables or (dependent variable) do you want to use? Maybe you could put together a multiple regression for us and hypothesize the explanatory independent variables that have high confidence intervals.

That sounds pretty hard.

Wins are a team success. Lots of great QBs didn't play for winning teams. Yet, when engaged in a discussion about the relative greatness of a QB, many people will blurt out something about "well, so and so WON this many games". I've been guilty of thinking those things. But really, it's only a small part of any players resume.

Good thing wins weren't used to measure John Elways success at Stanford (20-23). Or Warren Moon and Joe Namath in the NFL, who were both .500 QBs or less, but somehow made it into the HoF.

 

[Thagoods]

And here we are using wins as the measuring stick for a QBs success.

What other variables or (dependent variable) do you want to use? Maybe you could put together a multiple regression for us and hypothesize the explanatory independent variables that have high confidence intervals.

That sounds pretty hard.

Wins are a team success. Lots of great QBs didn't play for winning teams. Yet, when engaged in a discussion about the relative greatness of a QB, many people will blurt out something about "well, so and so WON this many games". I've been guilty of thinking those things. But really, it's only a small part of any players resume.

Good thing wins weren't used to measure John Elways success at Stanford (20-23). Or Warren Moon and Joe Namath in the NFL, who were both .500 QBs or less, but somehow made it into the HoF.

What measure are you using? And why do keep referencing the NFL? We're talking about college football.

I'm using what I've seen, against better competition, and national recognition of awesomeness, along with wins.

 

[Monster]

Last I checked, Stanford was a college.

 

[Hawkstrat]

People simply undervalue a quarterback that can pick up a third and five with his legs. Or the importance of being able to avoid a second down sack. Vandy would have to be head and shoulders above Banks as a passer to equal Brad's importance to his team.

 

[howler]

Haven't read the thread, but Vandy is arguably the better passer and Banks affirmatively the better QB.

 

[bigazzturkeylegs]

What's going on in this thr....


OH LAWD!

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

Bump for Monster.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

you just dont understand football from monsters point of view.

 

[PipeDaddy]

Lotta people looking pretty stupid in this thread.

 

[Monster]

Bump for Monster.

How can I help you?

One game does not change my mind. Mainly because I'm not so emotional after a loss that I lose all ability to be rational.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

ive had the same thought after every game, win or lose. jvb sucks and his season is a product of McNutt. no emotion involved.

i dont even get how expectations got so high for him. he was a late offer from a small school who had great receivers and a pass happy system.

 

[PipeDaddy]

ive had the same thought after every game, win or lose. jvb sucks and his season is a product of McNutt. no emotion involved.

i dont even get how expectations got so high for him. he was a late offer from a small school who had great receivers and a pass happy system.

He sucks? Really?

 

[Monster]

This is LWade, Pipe.

 

[scottsdalehawk]

JC sucked. Vandy does not suck but he too has some serious weak points. I do agree with Wade that McNutt has helped his numbers. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year w/o Marv.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

he could be worse but hes pretty bad.

 

[Monster]

I think Vandy helped mcnutts numbers.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

fwiw, our receivers besides mcnutt also suck just as i said they would. there is little upside with this group. next year is gonna be painful in the passing game unless the TEs return to the level we are used to.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I think Vandy helped mcnutts numbers.

im sure you do. its awesome.

 

[Monster]

Mcnutts production went up significantly with Vandy throwing to him. That makes very little sense. I know mcnutt would get better being a year older, but last year he had an NFL QB throwing to him and a pretty good receiver on the other side for defenses to focus on. This year, brand new QB, inexperienced receivers around him, and he's putting up record numbers.

 

[BBK]

VBerg might make for a decent big ten QB if he can stop having poopy pants on the road.

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

Vandy sucked today but the play calling was worse. If Vandy wants to be legit, he's gotta win on the road and put up numbers, I'll admit.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

people think its only a road thing, but even his home numbers are skewed a bit by playing some awful teams at home.

our play calling would look a lot better with players that could execute.

 

[valp0guy]

Mcnutts production went up significantly with Vandy throwing to him. That makes very little sense. I know mcnutt would get better being a year older, but last year he had an NFL QB throwing to him and a pretty good receiver on the other side for defenses to focus on. This year, brand new QB, inexperienced receivers around him, and he's putting up record numbers.

This year, he didn't have an equally-talented WR stealing catches and TD's from him. It makes perfect sense that his numbers would go up this season.

 

[Monster]

Nuh uh.

 

[jabberjaw]

Without reading it, I'm guessing that this thread is pretty fuckin' funny.

 

[Hawk_Kegmasters]

Anyone who thinks that Brad Banks was a better QB than JVB needs to kill themselves immediately, or at least never post in the football forum again.

:neutral:

 

[scottsdalehawk]

Anyone who thinks that Brad Banks was a better QB than JVB needs to kill themselves immediately, or at least never post in the football forum again.

pwned

 

[scottsdalehawk]

I like JVB much better than Stanzi. Wish he'd have started last year.

pwned

 

[douglasbader]

Vandy is gonna blow up next year if he gets a win at Nebrantska under his belt.

Technically, I am still safe here!

Good prediction by me, that Nebrantska game killed him.

 

[BBK]

Anyone who thinks that Brad Banks was a better QB than JVB needs to kill themselves immediately, or at least never post in the football forum again.

pwned

:shock:

 

[scottsdalehawk]

I would rather have JVB over Stanzi, also.

pwned

 

[PipeDaddy]

Self pwnage is awesome.

 

[jabberjaw]

our play calling would look a lot better with players that could execute.

Okay, Kirk.

 

[douglasbader]

ive had the same thought after every game, win or lose. jvb sucks and his season is a product of McNutt. no emotion involved.

i dont even get how expectations got so high for him. he was a late offer from a small school who had great receivers and a pass happy system.

He sucks? Really?

Yes. Really.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

people need to understand that I am correct most of the time. I just piss off a lot of people in the process.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

i

our play calling would look a lot better with players that could execute.

Okay, Kirk.

its really is true though. I liked the KOK offense, I just disliked some of the predictability and specific play calling.

 

[BBK]

people need to understand that I am correct most of the time. I just piss off a lot of people in the process.

:rotf::rotf::rotf:

 

[L. Wade Childress]

bbk is a fucking dipshit with absolutely no redeeming qualities.

see, another great example.

 

[bigazzturkeylegs]

Anyone who thinks that Brad Banks was a better QB than JVB needs to kill themselves immediately, or at least never post in the football forum again.

Lots of people here need to kill themselves.

BRB killing myself.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I still have no idea why anyone thought jvb was worth a shit, let alone an overwhelming majority of fans