***Iowa v. Michigan - 2/25/21 - 6:00 PM - ESPN***

CamelTones

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Patrick’s comparison is Keegan Murray. But Murray is way better.
 

BBK

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There cant be that big of a drop off between Keegan and Kris, right? Similar stats coming in, same size.

Play all the Murrays. Keegan, Kris, Kendall, and Kylie.
 

douglasbader

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The game was fucked from the start. It is the first time I can remember thinking that Luka was actually playing sort of selfishly. It seemed like his gameplan was to prove something going against Dickinson by trying to bully a freshman inside. It was clear from the very first possession that it was a terrible strategy. He should have been playing outside in and trying to stretch the floor and draw him away from the rim, not trying to bang with a guy that is as skilled and bigger than he is.

Combine that with the terrible job by the refs and fucking up the clock multiple times, and there was never a rhythm.
 

CamelTones

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Am I the only one that thinks Garza makes the wrong read when screening up top a handful of times per game? It seems like he would be wide open for a pick and pop over and over and instead he rolls into the lane.
 

Will McCoy

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When we took the 37-36 lead on Luka's 3-point play and got Dickinson's 3rd with 17:30 left, I was certain it was at least going to be a toss up game. Instead they put a 14-2 run on us the next 3:40 with our starters in. Got it to 7 then the terrible bench stretch that was discussed.
I put the kids to bed a minute after Dickinson went to the bench and got back to see the Hawks down by 20 with 2 minutes left. I was shocked. Between the PBP and the thread it looks like it was a combo of Garza missing bunnies, CJ refusing to shoot, and nothing from the bench. bohannon was 1 of 6 2nd half so I’m surprised I haven’t read a hate fest on him.
 

hawkeyealum

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Joe Toussaint continues to irritate me.
Yeah. I was pleased to see them but in Ulis to move Jordan off ball but he was a train wreck. Probably should have gotten him some minutes earlier when Jordan was playing 35 rather than sending him out there against Michigan
 
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There cant be that big of a drop off between Keegan and Kris, right? Similar stats coming in, same size.

Play all the Murrays. Keegan, Kris, Kendall, and Kylie.
It's weird to say but my optimism of Iowa basketball over the next few years hinges on the assumption that Kris is a stud too. If we have 2 Keegans and Fredrick at minimum we'll be good defensively and be decent shooting. If he somehow sucks and we lose Garza and Weiskamp along with no Nunge it could be a pretty tough year.
 

BBK

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Ya man, Murrays, Ulis, Perkins, Casey Affleck. Two more years of Fredrick, Nunge, and PsychoT (maybe).

The future currently lacks muscle but appears athletically bright.

Let's Be Black Again.
 
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kenos

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The better question is will he want to still be playing Iowa basketball in his 30s.
Well, he's not that old, but he is 22, came in the same class with Garza, is probably close to finishing his degree, and might ask if he really wants to be playing college basketball when he is 24, rather than getting out and earning a living with his accounting degree. If he could finish a masters while on scholarship by the end of '23, ok, maybe that's a smart plan, but it might start to look pretty silly to hang around and use that fourth year of eligibility and play college basketball at 25 when he would have other life options with a grad degree (MBA?).

If he has to have another ACL repair, it might not be that his physical capacity to play college basketball has been exhausted, but that he may look at the timeline and decide to move on with his life.
 

kenos

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Wagner is so much more skilled I never would have considered this. But you are right. Patrick has the size and athleticism. The skill gap is as big as the ocean (Atlantic).
Because there is a huge talent gap between the two. Wagner was playing (unpaid) in the BBL as a teenager, practicing and competing against former power 5 conference Americans and some of the best Euro talent. Had he been born in America he would have been a top recruit.
 

nolookpass

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Toussaint is a major issue right now. It's too bad that Ulis was uncharacteristically bad and mistake prone but I don't fault Fran for going to him. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for Toussaint to come in, play good D, move the ball and not fuck up offensively. He's just a mess right now.
his confidence is shot. He played well in the game where Fran benched the starters and Iowa won and the next two games out he got 2 and 4 minutes. He knows if he makes a mistake he gets the quick hook. So Iowa runs the slowest guard combo in D1 out there for 35 minutes a game.
 

kenos

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There it is.
bohannon moving on is going to be the best thing for Joe and Ahron. Fran will just have to let those two make their mistakes next year, without the quick hook. It's going to be rough, but unless he's got a 4-star PG in his pocket, that's what he's going to have to work with.
 

hawkeyealum

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bohannon moving on is going to be the best thing for Joe and Ahron. Fran will just have to let those two make their mistakes next year, without the quick hook. It's going to be rough, but unless he's got a 4-star PG in his pocket, that's what he's going to have to work with.
My memory sucks but Touissant played 18 minutes per game last year and I don’t recall him being this bad.

he’s a fucking mess out there. I’m not saying I want him to leave but it’s not like Iowa would have to replace a lot of production on either end with him at this point.
 

TJones3312

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My memory sucks but Touissant played 18 minutes per game last year and I don’t recall him being this bad.

he’s a fucking mess out there. I’m not saying I want him to leave but it’s not like Iowa would have to replace a lot of production on either end with him at this point.
HE DIDNT HAVE A QUICK HOOK THEN! DIDNT HAVE TO PLAY WITH CRAPTICK MAC!
 

TJones3312

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The problem with this entire Toussaint explanation is that his numbers are extremely similar to last year when he had a clear role and consistent minutes. Perhaps it’s just who he is and not the fault of the coach?
LOL. It can’t be that.
 

MikeyJoe

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My memory sucks but Touissant played 18 minutes per game last year and I don’t recall him being this bad.

he’s a fucking mess out there. I’m not saying I want him to leave but it’s not like Iowa would have to replace a lot of production on either end with him at this point.
He was almost exactly the same guy last year. Same shooting, same assist rate. He’s turning it over just a bit more and fouling a bit more this year.
 

CamelTones

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I'd rather Fran just pick either Ulis or Toussaint and play him. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to let a guy sit for 30 minutes of game time then bring him in with 10 minutes left in a competitive game and expect him to produce. If one of them doesn't like it then @Whatever beat the other guy out in practice.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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Michigan is better at every position defensively, and is really good on offense. They are well coached. Thing fucking sucks, but that is a legit title contender, and Iowa is going to need some breaks to get to the Final Four. That doesn't mean Fran or the team sucks, I was honestly happy with how they defended for most of the game. Luka missed some shots he normally makes, and they caught some bad breaks.
 

Revolver

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You also cannot depend on Luka to do it all offensively in every single game. Needed some other guys to step up and they did not. Luka said it best, we were good for 24 minutes and that wasn’t going to cut it. Come out ready to play and hope some shooters get hot and take down OSU and IowaFan will going into hiding once more. This is a good team and only the true dipshits cannot see that.
 

CamelTones

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Michigan is better than Iowa but I didn't take away from that game that they were clearly better and Iowa has no chance against them. It was arguably Frans worst game plan since Ohio State. Going zone the last couple minutes of the first half was dumb. Taking out both Wieskamp and Frederick at the 11 minute mark of the second half was dumb.

I know Fran waved the white flag at the 4 minute mark (and Iowa has played more games) which affects these numbers, but Livers played 36 minutes, Wagner played 34.5 minutes, Brooks played 33. Wieskamp didn't play 30, and Frederick played right at 30. Chaundee Brown played as many minutes as Patrick did. With Nunge, other starters minutes would have been reduced as well. Iowa got some stops from the 11 minute mark to the 8 minute mark of the second half but didn't score once and a 7 point game went to 14. If Ulis is coming in to play pg, why would you not sub out bohannon and leave Wieskamp in?
 

Revolver

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Michigan is better than Iowa but I didn't take away from that game that they were clearly better and Iowa has no chance against them. It was arguably Frans worst game plan since Ohio State. Going zone the last couple minutes of the first half was dumb. Taking out both Wieskamp and Frederick at the 11 minute mark of the second half was dumb.

I know Fran waved the white flag at the 4 minute mark (and Iowa has played more games) which affects these numbers, but Livers played 36 minutes, Wagner played 34.5 minutes, Brooks played 33. Wieskamp didn't play 30, and Frederick played right at 30. Chaundee Brown played as many minutes as Patrick did. With Nunge, other starters minutes would have been reduced as well. Iowa got some stops from the 11 minute mark to the 8 minute mark of the second half but didn't score once and a 7 point game went to 14. If Ulis is coming in to play pg, why would you not sub out bohannon and leave Wieskamp in?
I think it is a bad matchup that they probably win 7/10 times personally. Our guards are bad defensively and Michigan is great off the dribble. Dickinson is as tough a matchup for Garza as anyone we have seen or will see. They’re long and athletic and they play a physical style that we always struggle against. The good thing is we almost certainly will not see them in the Big Dance, so flush it and be ready to face OSU who is a much better matchup for us.
 
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Dr. Zaius

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IowaFan is a really shitty descriptor. It is the Facebook/walmart Iowa fans that are the leeches of the fanbase posting vitriol on HH and posting HBAM on Facebook
 

BluesHawk

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I'm also getting a little frustrated by the lack of finishing. A lot of guys making decent moves to get close to the rim, but then fading away or drifting sideways and shooting. Or finding themselves wide open at the rim and just flat out missing. It's almost like they're just trying to draw contact but forgetting the objective is to score.
 

Revolver

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IowaFan is a really shitty descriptor. It is the Facebook/walmart Iowa fans that are the leeches of the fanbase posting vitriol on HH and posting HBAM on Facebook
How many times do we have to say that IowaFan is Walmart fan? You don’t say “IowaFan” about someone who is reasonable. You say IowaFan about the people who come in and talk about the Fran Fade and following your shot and bitch about Joe T. not getting minutes and screaming for Olaseni to play more than Woodbury, etc.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I'm also getting a little frustrated by the lack of finishing. A lot of guys making decent moves to get close to the rim, but then fading away or drifting sideways and shooting. Or finding themselves wide open at the rim and just flat out missing. It's almost like they're just trying to draw contact but forgetting the objective is to score.
its a product of getting hammered on drives and the refs not calling anything
 

FrodoTBaggin

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its a product of getting hammered on drives and the refs not calling anything
How long we going to bitch about this? It's past the point of whiny.

They're stronger and more athletic than us! If they couldn't touch us, we would beat them!

Fucking recruit differently or train your players differently.
 

L. Wade Childress

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How long we going to bitch about this? It's past the point of whiny.

They're stronger and more athletic than us! If they couldn't touch us, we would beat them!

Fucking recruit differently or train your players differently.
maybe we should switch conferences.

we recruit the best players we can get. It’s not like Fran is scrolling through Amazon all day reading reviews trying to find the best option for the price.

Your post was way more whiny than mine. I am just telling you why it’s happening.
 
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I don't think bohannon was getting hammered with his misses. I do think Nunge gets fucked in the sense that he gets bodied as hard as Garza but doesn't get the whistle. I also think he feels contact and just puts it up.
 

Shawneemicks

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maybe we should switch conferences.

we recruit the best players we can get. It’s not like Fran is scrolling through Amazon all day reading reviews trying to find the best option for the price.

Your post was way more whiny than mine. I am just telling you why it’s happening.
Maybe he should!
 

Skinny Skier

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its a product of getting hammered on drives and the refs not calling anything
We’ve shot the fifth most free throws in the league. Two teams above us have played one less game. Michigan has attempted over 200 fewer free throws. We have shot more threes than all but one team.

we are losing because our defensive rebounding percentage sucks and our three point defense sucks. We have the worst three point d in the league and teams have attempted more threes than against any other team.

The zone is simply not a reasonable strategy for us and that falls at the coaches’ feet.
 

L. Wade Childress

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We’ve shot the fifth most free throws in the league. Two teams above us have played one less game. Michigan has attempted over 200 fewer free throws. We have shot more threes than all but one team.

we are losing because our defensive rebounding percentage sucks and our three point defense sucks. We have the worst three point d in the league and teams have attempted more threes than against any other team.

The zone is simply not a reasonable strategy for us and that falls at the coaches’ feet.
great! I never said anything about most of that.
 

Dr. Zaius

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I, for one, would like to see some more athletes and defense on the floor consistently at this point in 10 years of Fran. It’s a decent product with varying levels of excitement, but not sure he’ll win a big ten title here or advance past sweet 16/elite 8, especially if he doesn’t this year. I suppose I’m ok with that after the previous bullshit. Hope he can get lucky with recruiting going forward.
 
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