**Iowa vs. Nebrantska - 3/10 - 1:00pm BTN**

[HiawathaHawk]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Also, they're a lock regardless of what happens in the BTT.

Because you can’t have two firsts.

And because the coaches that I grew up admiring in my late teens and early twenties were man-to-man Bobby Knight disciple Bob Donewald at Illinois State (in my hometown) and Tom Davis -- and although Davis' teams could run up some points, the offense was always an extension of the defense. And grind-it-out guys Jim Boeheim, Dick Bennett, and (ugh) fucking Izzo.

Give me a d-first coach whose team is, year in and year out, mentally tough and doesn't self-sabotage with stupid shit down the stretch.

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

Nope. I'd be ok with similar results if they were achieved in a different way. It's an aesthetic choice, but I'd much rather see a defense-minded team seem to overachieve to go 11-9 or 10-10 in conference than a high-scoring team that seems to malfunction its way to the same record.

I wasn't ready for Davis to leave, fwiw.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

Because you can’t have two firsts.

And because the coaches that I grew up admiring in my late teens and early twenties were man-to-man Bobby Knight disciple Bob Donewald at Illinois State (in my hometown) and Tom Davis -- and although Davis' teams could run up some points, the offense was always an extension of the defense. And grind-it-out guys Jim Boeheim, Dick Bennett, and (ugh) fucking Izzo.

Give me a d-first coach whose team is, year in and year out, mentally tough and doesn't self-sabotage with stupid shit down the stretch.

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

All I really want is for the team to play with better defensive technique, especially in man. He needs to find a way. Cook’s, as one example, defensive abilities given his size and athleticism aren’t good at all. The scheme stuff about where help comes from, how you shade (looks at Baer), how we play ball screens are problematic. We end up in help situations far too often, and a lot of it is scheme and technique, not just player ability.

 

[HiawathaHawk]

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

Nope. I'd be ok with similar results if they were achieved in a different way. It's an aesthetic choice, but I'd much rather see a defense-minded team seem to overachieve to go 11-9 or 10-10 in conference than a high-scoring team that seems to malfunction its way to the same record.

I wasn't ready for Davis to leave, fwiw.

That seems odd to me and my guess is there would be other faults that would frustrate you the same. But maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

It reminds me of some Ferentz discussions. For a while people talked about how they'd be fine with his results if he stopped losing to Iowa State and teams we should beat. Then that happened and the rants became that we couldn't beat anyone with a pulse.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

Nope. I'd be ok with similar results if they were achieved in a different way. It's an aesthetic choice, but I'd much rather see a defense-minded team seem to overachieve to go 11-9 or 10-10 in conference than a high-scoring team that seems to malfunction its way to the same record.

I wasn't ready for Davis to leave, fwiw.

That seems odd to me and my guess is there would be other faults that would frustrate you the same. But maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

It reminds me of some Ferentz discussions. For a while people talked about how they'd be fine with his results if he stopped losing to Iowa State and teams we should beat. Then that happened and the rants became that we couldn't beat anyone with a pulse.

In fairness, Kirk has made adjustments in how he calls games, the recruiting aparatus, and schemes.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

Hiawatha, I'm in the "it's just Iowa" camp. I think that the results that Kirk has had with football, and that TD and Fran had with basketball, are the realistic ceilings.

I'm ok with the occasional frustrations that happen with Kirkball -- because it's usually fundamentally sound, and the product of a lot of up-coached overachievers. Franball drives me a little nuts.

 

[HiawathaHawk]

Okay Thomas, but that's not my point. I'm talking about how the frustrations will change and unless you're winning titles or near the top consistently, the other stuff is just a moving target.

People should be frustrated with our D and they need to improve. I'm responding to "just give me a coach who will have his teams play good defense". There will almost certainly be different faults and people will get sick of those unless he's delivering top of the league results.

 

[nolookpass]

the strength coach is still stealing. They must use Richard Simmons tapes in their workouts.

woof.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

Okay Thomas, but that's not my point. I'm talking about how the frustrations will change and unless you're winning titles or near the top consistently, the other stuff is just a moving target.

People should be frustrated with our D and they need to improve. I'm responding to "just give me a coach who will have his teams play good defense". There will almost certainly be different faults and people will get sick of those unless he's delivering top of the league results.

I agree with this. Just firing Fran isn’t a panacea. Alford’s teams played good defense, but weren’t sound on offense, which was also frustrating to watch.

They also finished better than 8 other teams in the league, so it can’t be thaat bad.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

There will almost certainly be different faults and people will get sick of those unless he's delivering top of the league results.

Well, that's delusional Iowa fan who thinks that it's still 1977 and that you can find Ronnie Lester somehow under the radar.

 

[Revolver]

Okay Thomas, but that's not my point. I'm talking about how the frustrations will change and unless you're winning titles or near the top consistently, the other stuff is just a moving target.

People should be frustrated with our D and they need to improve. I'm responding to "just give me a coach who will have his teams play good defense". There will almost certainly be different faults and people will get sick of those unless he's delivering top of the league results.

I agree with this. Just firing Fran isn’t a panacea. Alford’s teams played good defense, but weren’t sound on offense, which was also frustrating to watch.

They also finished better than 8 other teams in the league, so it can’t be thaat bad.

It's pretty damn bad, and this stretch for the last few weeks or so has been some of the most unbearably bad basketball to watch (NCAA MBB is putting forth a pretty shitty product on the whole right now).

I'm not calling for Fran's head, but also wouldn't mind if he wasn't the coach next season.

 

[CamelTones]

Iowa doesn’t need to fire Fran but if he looks around I don’t think Iowa fans would be disappointed.

I’d say with Connor here that’s less likely but with the way the NCAA has granted eligibility on transfers recently it makes it a lot easier.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

really, just a couple of harrison barnes juco types and this is all fixed

 

[nolookpass]

Iowa doesn’t need to fire Fran but if he looks around I don’t think Iowa fans would be disappointed.

I’d say with Connor here that’s less likely but with the way the NCAA has granted eligibility on transfers recently it makes it a lot easier.

I dunno if he'd even get a lateral move now. Him berating the ref in the tunnel wouldn't be a good sell. I hope the team(and Connor)improve next year or it's gonna get ugly.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

Fran is here for three more years, easily.

Cook stays. Nunge takes off the redshirt. Connor may stick to baseball and Toussaint is your backup pg. Patrick gives more than Baer off the bench.

Making the dance should be within next year's team's reach. Live with Franball, and have a stretch like the three Gesell-Woody-Uthoff years.

 

[Mo T]

Making the dance should be within next year's team's reach. Live with Franball, and have a stretch like the three Gesell-Woody-Uthoff years.

Simply making the dance isn't good enough when you are building up to having every starter back for the second year in a row. Next year's team should be the type to make a Sweet 16 or better type run. Things don't align at Iowa like they will next year very often. But, I also think that these guys just aren't that good.

 

[Shpadoinkle]

Making the dance should be within next year's team's reach. Live with Franball, and have a stretch like the three Gesell-Woody-Uthoff years.

Simply making the dance isn't good enough when you are building up to having every starter back for the second year in a row. Next year's team should be the type to make a Sweet 16 or better type run. Things don't align at Iowa like they will next year very often. But, I also think that these guys just aren't that good.

Agreed. Fans should expect a higher seed next year for sure.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

And because the coaches that I grew up admiring in my late teens and early twenties were man-to-man Bobby Knight disciple Bob Donewald at Illinois State (in my hometown) and Tom Davis -- and although Davis' teams could run up some points, the offense was always an extension of the defense. And grind-it-out guys Jim Boeheim, Dick Bennett, and (ugh) fucking Izzo.

Give me a d-first coach whose team is, year in and year out, mentally tough and doesn't self-sabotage with stupid shit down the stretch.

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

All I really want is for the team to play with better defensive technique, especially in man. He needs to find a way. Cook’s, as one example, defensive abilities given his size and athleticism aren’t good at all. The scheme stuff about where help comes from, how you shade (looks at Baer), how we play ball screens are problematic. We end up in help situations far too often, and a lot of it is scheme and technique, not just player ability.

I don’t think there is 100% buy in yet. Too often it seems like Jordan, Moss, or Cook are the cause of lapses in fundamentals. The other guys aren’t bubbling over with talent with they seem to try hard. Garza needs to get a lot better though.

 

[Revolver]

And if he makes it 9 years without Beilein, Izzo, Painter results, you'll probably get tired of his faults and want something different.

The vast majority were ready for Davis to leave. Same with Alford. After Lick the consensus was we just need someone whose teams can actually score and get back to making the tournament somewhat regularly.

The next guy will have a honeymoon period and then we'll likely end up in this same place everyone is now.

All I really want is for the team to play with better defensive technique, especially in man. He needs to find a way. Cook’s, as one example, defensive abilities given his size and athleticism aren’t good at all. The scheme stuff about where help comes from, how you shade (looks at Baer), how we play ball screens are problematic. We end up in help situations far too often, and a lot of it is scheme and technique, not just player ability.

I don’t think there is 100% buy in yet. Too often it seems like Jordan, Moss, or Cook are the cause of lapses in fundamentals. The other guys aren’t bubbling over with talent with they seem to try hard. Garza needs to get a lot better though.

Fran's staff is not good at developing bigs. They haven't been in the past and I don't see any reason to think that will change.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

All I really want is for the team to play with better defensive technique, especially in man. He needs to find a way. Cook’s, as one example, defensive abilities given his size and athleticism aren’t good at all. The scheme stuff about where help comes from, how you shade (looks at Baer), how we play ball screens are problematic. We end up in help situations far too often, and a lot of it is scheme and technique, not just player ability.

I don’t think there is 100% buy in yet. Too often it seems like Jordan, Moss, or Cook are the cause of lapses in fundamentals. The other guys aren’t bubbling over with talent with they seem to try hard. Garza needs to get a lot better though.

Fran's staff is not good at developing bigs. They haven't been in the past and I don't see any reason to think that will change.

At least they make up for it by not developing guards.

 

[Revolver]

I don’t think there is 100% buy in yet. Too often it seems like Jordan, Moss, or Cook are the cause of lapses in fundamentals. The other guys aren’t bubbling over with talent with they seem to try hard. Garza needs to get a lot better though.

Fran's staff is not good at developing bigs. They haven't been in the past and I don't see any reason to think that will change.

At least they make up for it by not developing guards.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

Okay Thomas, but that's not my point. I'm talking about how the frustrations will change and unless you're winning titles or near the top consistently, the other stuff is just a moving target.

People should be frustrated with our D and they need to improve. I'm responding to "just give me a coach who will have his teams play good defense". There will almost certainly be different faults and people will get sick of those unless he's delivering top of the league results.

When I watch basic shit like not jumping to the ball, switching big on guard on ball screens, 2 passes away not being in help position and then not moving to cut off a baseline drive.

I chalk that up to more than just watching Frans teams for so long I’m just tired of their specific faults.

This is basic shit and it’s been this way since day 1.

 

[Hawkeye_Pierce]

Defense has less to do with coaching than it does with athleticism, lateral quickness, and desire. Iowa's a poor defensive team as a result of the types of players they recruit. That's been the case for most of Fran's tenure and will likely continue to be the case in the future. To compound the problem, Iowa players appear to be physically weaker than their opponents. That's not going to cut it - especially in the BT.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

Defense has less to do with coaching than it does with athleticism, lateral quickness, and desire. Iowa's a poor defensive team as a result of the types of players they recruit. That's been the case for most of Fran's tenure and will likely continue to be the case in the future. To compound the problem, Iowa players appear to be physically weaker than their opponents. That's not going to cut it - especially in the BT.

It’s 2 parts coaching and 1 part athleticism.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

to toss out "no possible way to substantiate wild-ass quantitative claims," it's 60% coaching, 20% strength and conditioning, 20% natural athleticism

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I don’t buy the athleticism stuff either. Wisconsin and UNI recruit the same footprint and have had lesser athletic ability than us over the years and they consistently play great defense.

 

[Hawkeye_Pierce]

Defense has less to do with coaching than it does with athleticism, lateral quickness, and desire. Iowa's a poor defensive team as a result of the types of players they recruit. That's been the case for most of Fran's tenure and will likely continue to be the case in the future. To compound the problem, Iowa players appear to be physically weaker than their opponents. That's not going to cut it - especially in the BT.

It’s 2 parts coaching and 1 part athleticism.

Nah. These kids have played approximately 1 million games before they set foot on a college campus. Most of them know how to play defense and it's not like Iowa doesn't coach it, despite all evidence to the contrary. They just lack the physical ability. It makes them look flat footed or slow to close out on shooters. Combine that with poor strength and this is what you get. Fran's substitutions don't help either.

 

[Shpadoinkle]

70% effort, 10% coaching, 13% floor slaps, 7% fist pumps.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

Defense has less to do with coaching than it does with athleticism, lateral quickness, and desire. Iowa's a poor defensive team as a result of the types of players they recruit. That's been the case for most of Fran's tenure and will likely continue to be the case in the future. To compound the problem, Iowa players appear to be physically weaker than their opponents. That's not going to cut it - especially in the BT.

It’s 2 parts coaching and 1 part athleticism.

Nah. These kids have played approximately 1 million games before they set foot on a college campus. Most of them know how to play defense and it's not like Iowa doesn't coach it, despite all evidence to the contrary. They just lack the physical ability. It makes them look flat footed or slow to close out on shooters. Combine that with poor strength and this is what you get. Fran's substitutions don't help either.

I respectfully disagree. Players do what they’re allowed to do

 

[Hawkeye_Pierce]

I don’t buy the athleticism stuff either. Wisconsin and UNI recruit the same footprint and have had lesser athletic ability than us over the years and they consistently play great defense.

Wisconsin's offensive philosophy dovetails nicely with their defense. If Iowa slowed things down similarly, I'd be willing to bet their defense would suddenly look better.

 

[Fletch]

I get tired of the "this is the ceiling at Iowa and the next guy won’t get us over the hump either" argument.

For 50 years, Wisconsin was so bad that they were the equivalent of Northwestern. They were absolute garbage, one of the worst programs in the country. Now, they are good every single year and make final 4 runs seemingly every 5-6 years.

Fran needs to address the issues, starting with his shit assistant coaches, or Barta needs to show him the door.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

Defense has less to do with coaching than it does with athleticism, lateral quickness, and desire. Iowa's a poor defensive team as a result of the types of players they recruit. That's been the case for most of Fran's tenure and will likely continue to be the case in the future. To compound the problem, Iowa players appear to be physically weaker than their opponents. That's not going to cut it - especially in the BT.

It’s 2 parts coaching and 1 part athleticism.

Nah. These kids have played approximately 1 million games before they set foot on a college campus. Most of them know how to play defense and it's not like Iowa doesn't coach it, despite all evidence to the contrary. They just lack the physical ability. It makes them look flat footed or slow to close out on shooters. Combine that with poor strength and this is what you get. Fran's substitutions don't help either.

When we are in man and a guy gets an open three after one pass, that is coaching or effort, not athletic ability.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I don’t buy the athleticism stuff either. Wisconsin and UNI recruit the same footprint and have had lesser athletic ability than us over the years and they consistently play great defense.

Wisconsin's offensive philosophy dovetails nicely with their defense. If Iowa slowed things down similarly, I'd be willing to bet their defense would suddenly look better.

Oh, I have no doubt about that.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

I don’t buy the athleticism stuff either. Wisconsin and UNI recruit the same footprint and have had lesser athletic ability than us over the years and they consistently play great defense.

Wisconsin's offensive philosophy dovetails nicely with their defense. If Iowa slowed things down similarly, I'd be willing to bet their defense would suddenly look better.

Sure pace definitely does play a factor. That’s why PPG is a bad stat to look at. Defensive efficiency is a much better stat to use.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I get tired of the "this is the ceiling at Iowa and the next guy won’t get us over the hump either" argument.

For 50 years, Wisconsin was so bad that they were the equivalent of Northwestern. They were absolute garbage, one of the worst programs in the country. Now, they are good every single year and make final 4 runs seemingly every 5-6 years.

Fran needs to address the issues, starting with his shit assistant coaches, or Barta needs to show him the door.

Yes, I’m sure hiring a longtime D3 coach in hopes of getting lucky would go over well.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

 

[Fletch]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

You think they’d stay 9 years if they had no input?

 

[HiawathaHawk]

I get tired of the "this is the ceiling at Iowa and the next guy won’t get us over the hump either" argument.

For 50 years, Wisconsin was so bad that they were the equivalent of Northwestern. They were absolute garbage, one of the worst programs in the country. Now, they are good every single year and make final 4 runs seemingly every 5-6 years.

Fran needs to address the issues, starting with his shit assistant coaches, or Barta needs to show him the door.

Yeah it can happen and we all hope it does. You can also acknowledge that it's probably a bottom half job in the league. That Goodman coach survey had them 11th. I'd say you could make an argument for 8-10 but it's tough to say it's higher than that.

If we get the next Tony Bennett, Bo Ryan or Chris Beard that would be awesome. The most likely outcome is somewhere in the 90's Davis, Alford, Fran vicinity.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

You think they’d stay 9 years if they had no input?

I don’t know. They obviously have input my point is no one knows how much or what they do.

Case in point, everyone bitched about the post play under Alford and in turn bitched about how shitty of a coach Brian Jones was bc he was tall. He worked primarily with the guards.

And he’s the head coach at North Dakota and doing a decent job up there.

My whole point is it’s a HC/Fran issue.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

He needs to change what he teaches on defense. I look at Michigan and am extremely envious. I don’t know if Fran would tolerate that but he needs to either figure it out or let someone else do it.

 

[eclone]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

He needs to change what he teaches on defense. I look at Michigan and am extremely envious. I don’t know if Fran would tolerate that but he needs to either figure it out or let someone else do it.

And Michigan did it by having an expereienced coach that was great on offense realize that he needed to change his ways on defense and hire a defensive coordinator assistant and really let him take over the defense.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/03/05/whats-secret-michigan-basketballs-run-start-john-beilein/394027002/

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

He needs to change what he teaches on defense. I look at Michigan and am extremely envious. I don’t know if Fran would tolerate that but he needs to either figure it out or let someone else do it.

And Michigan did it by having an expereienced coach that was great on offense realize that he needed to change his ways on defense and hire a defensive coordinator assistant and really let him take over the defense.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/03/05/whats-secret-michigan-basketballs-run-start-john-beilein/394027002/

That is exactly what I am saying.

 

[Fletch]

I love when people bring up the assistants. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s funny bc no one has any idea the level of input Fran allows.

You think they’d stay 9 years if they had no input?

I don’t know. They obviously have input my point is no one knows how much or what they do.

Case in point, everyone bitched about the post play under Alford and in turn bitched about how shitty of a coach Brian Jones was bc he was tall. He worked primarily with the guards.

And he’s the head coach at North Dakota and doing a decent job up there.

My whole point is it’s a HC/Fran issue.

I agree with this. The buck stops with him. Whatever the problem is, he needs to figure it out and make the changes necessary.

 

[hawkharvs]

Making the dance should be within next year's team's reach. Live with Franball, and have a stretch like the three Gesell-Woody-Uthoff years.

Simply making the dance isn't good enough when you are building up to having every starter back for the second year in a row. Next year's team should be the type to make a Sweet 16 or better type run. Things don't align at Iowa like they will next year very often. But, I also think that these guys just aren't that good.

In all honesty, making the dance should be the gauge. Iowa has done nothing in the past 20 years to expect anything more than that. Whether or not you want to admit it, the landscape has changed. Until Iowa can consistently make the dance, its foolish to compare the program to something that really hasn't been the reality.

 

[Fritz Fequiere]

If on their next hire Iowa goes with a defense-first coach and has success, will haloman continue to cry foul?

No, he will not.

 

[CamelTones]

Making the dance should be within next year's team's reach. Live with Franball, and have a stretch like the three Gesell-Woody-Uthoff years.

Simply making the dance isn't good enough when you are building up to having every starter back for the second year in a row. Next year's team should be the type to make a Sweet 16 or better type run. Things don't align at Iowa like they will next year very often. But, I also think that these guys just aren't that good.

In all honesty, making the dance should be the gauge. Iowa has done nothing in the past 20 years to expect anything more than that. Whether or not you want to admit it, the landscape has changed. Until Iowa can consistently make the dance, its foolish to compare the program to something that really hasn't been the reality.

I don't really get this argument. What were Texas Tech and Kansas State before they hired Huggins/Webber and Beard? What was West Virginia before Beilein? Or even Michigan for that matter?

I also don't buy the argument that Fran can't develop bigs. He turned Gabe Olaseni into a damn good player. Garzas been good, just needs to learn how to box out. White was a 4 and left the school 2nd all time in scoring. Some of that is natural ability but coaching goes into that.

What AZ is saying is true though. Iowa's defensive philosophy has way more to do with their problems than their perceived athleticism. Cook got caught absolutely flat footed in the first half yesterday on a simple drive. It was embarrassing. Harper Jrs spin move drive by 3 Iowa guys to the basket when they played Rutgers is all effort and unwillingness to step in. They just reached and watched. The stupid auto switch when whoever Garza is guarding sets a screen is frustrating. Indiana got exactly what they wanted at the end of regulation, luckily for Iowa Langford chose to pull up instead of drive. The way they help on the guy in the high post in the 2-3 makes no sense. They continued to leave Rutgers wide open looks from the corner while double and triple teaming Johnson at the free throw line. And lastly yesterday the only guy hurting them at all until the end was Roby and he got 3 wide open looks from the corner (made all 3) because someone like Trueblood would make a simple cut through the lane and every Iowa player reacted to him like he was Lebron James.

 

[hawkharvs]

Simply making the dance isn't good enough when you are building up to having every starter back for the second year in a row. Next year's team should be the type to make a Sweet 16 or better type run. Things don't align at Iowa like they will next year very often. But, I also think that these guys just aren't that good.

In all honesty, making the dance should be the gauge. Iowa has done nothing in the past 20 years to expect anything more than that. Whether or not you want to admit it, the landscape has changed. Until Iowa can consistently make the dance, its foolish to compare the program to something that really hasn't been the reality.

I don't really get this argument. What were Texas Tech and Kansas State before they hired Huggins/Webber and Beard? What was West Virginia before Beilein? Or even Michigan for that matter?

I also don't buy the argument that Fran can't develop bigs. He turned Gabe Olaseni into a damn good player. Garzas been good, just needs to learn how to box out. White was a 4 and left the school 2nd all time in scoring. Some of that is natural ability but coaching goes into that.

What AZ is saying is true though. Iowa's defensive philosophy has way more to do with their problems than their perceived athleticism. Cook got caught absolutely flat footed in the first half yesterday on a simple drive. It was embarrassing. Harper Jrs spin move drive by 3 Iowa guys to the basket when they played Rutgers is all effort and unwillingness to step in. They just reached and watched. The stupid auto switch when whoever Garza is guarding sets a screen is frustrating. Indiana got exactly what they wanted at the end of regulation, luckily for Iowa Langford chose to pull up instead of drive. The way they help on the guy in the high post in the 2-3 makes no sense. They continued to leave Rutgers wide open looks from the corner while double and triple teaming Johnson at the free throw line. And lastly yesterday the only guy hurting them at all until the end was Roby and he got 3 wide open looks from the corner (made all 3) because someone like Trueblood would make a simple cut through the lane and every Iowa player reacted to him like he was Lebron James.

I agree...the difference is that we aren't going to replace Fran now or in the near future. I should have prefaced that in an absence of change, we shouldn't expect much different and should be happy when we make the dance .

 

[Billy Butters]

He needs to change what he teaches on defense. I look at Michigan and am extremely envious. I don’t know if Fran would tolerate that but he needs to either figure it out or let someone else do it.

And Michigan did it by having an expereienced coach that was great on offense realize that he needed to change his ways on defense and hire a defensive coordinator assistant and really let him take over the defense.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/03/05/whats-secret-michigan-basketballs-run-start-john-beilein/394027002/

That is exactly what I am saying.

If Fran had Simpson, Mathews and Teske he would be fine. Athleticism isn't everything but you need to be at a certain baseline otherwise you're just recovering the whole possession from getting beat individually and your defense can only sustain that so long.

The comparisons to Wisconsin aren't great either. Name a PG as short, slow and weak as bohannon in Wisconsin's history.

To have the worst defensive PG and worst defensive big man in the conference is hard to recover from. Garza is the worst defensive player I have seen at Iowa.

It's still Fran's fault for many reasons, but I don't think any coach could turn this roster into an average defensive team.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

In all fairness to Kansas State, Altman and Asbury did all right there -- and were a step down from the previous coach (Lon Kruger) and the legend before him (Jack Hartman). Arguably, a better program since 1980 than Iowa.

West Virginia had Gale Catlett going to 8 NCAAs, with one sweet 16, from 1980-2000. Not setting the world on fire, but not trash, either.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

And Michigan did it by having an expereienced coach that was great on offense realize that he needed to change his ways on defense and hire a defensive coordinator assistant and really let him take over the defense.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/03/05/whats-secret-michigan-basketballs-run-start-john-beilein/394027002/

That is exactly what I am saying.

If Fran had Simpson, Mathews and Teske he would be fine. Athleticism isn't everything but you need to be at a certain baseline otherwise you're just recovering the whole possession from getting beat individually and your defense can only sustain that so long.

The comparisons to Wisconsin aren't great either. Name a PG as short, slow and weak as bohannon in Wisconsin's history.

To have the worst defensive PG and worst defensive big man in the conference is hard to recover from. Garza is the worst defensive player I have seen at Iowa.

It's still Fran's fault for many reasons, but I don't think any coach could turn this roster into an average defensive team.

Reuvers isn’t any more athletic than Garza, and Happ is less athletic than Cook. Pritzl? Davison? They are so much more efficient defensively and it can’t all be just the point guard. This team is athletic enough to be better than they are defensively.