- Mich St vs Iowa. 2/2/21. 6:00pm. FS1 -

BBK

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CJ needs to lose a few elbees.
 
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The zone is so frustrating to watch especially when the starters are in. You just know a wide open corner 3 is coming every time down the floor. Nunge and Keegan made a huge difference in the 2H.

A win is a win but that was miserable..

They really need to clean up the rebounding and free throws. If they aren’t just fucking terrible in those spots tonight they win going away. They already suck at rebounding and the zone doesn’t help.
 

Shpadoinkle

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That’s the fine line Fran has to walk, particularly regarding Jordan and Weezy. It took balls to sit those two, along with Connor, for as long as he did.
 
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It’s not like the first 10 minutes don’t count, but the game was totally different after that absurd 6/6 start from 3 cooled off.
Yes and no. It's always good to beat MSU, especially with some of the craziness on both sides.

But man the defense and rebounding were horrendous. They had been rebounding much better in the Big Ten so I'll hope tonight was just a bad night against a hungry team that's really good on the offensive glass. Some of the defensive shit was just so fucking bad.

Transition was awful 1st half mainly by starters but even Joe T. chipped in. Keegan fucked up a few times. Pat was overhelping. Joe W. wasn't locked in. Luka wasn't rebounding well. Connor played poorly overall.
 

CamelTones

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They actually figured out their rotations in the zone when the backups were in. They didn’t get sucked over to one side as bad as they usually do though Keegan still did a couple times. They did a pretty good job guarding the high post after a couple of fuck ups.

The only problem was they didn’t rebound out of it worth a shit.
 

Swingin' Dick Stanzi

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The zone is so frustrating to watch especially when the starters are in. You just know a wide open corner 3 is coming every time down the floor. Nunge and Keegan made a huge difference in the 2H.

A win is a win but that was miserable..

They really need to clean up the rebounding and free throws. If they aren’t just fucking terrible in those spots tonight they win going away. They already suck at rebounding and the zone doesn’t help.
You can’t run a zone with two guys as slow as bohannon and Garza in the lineup. It’s a guaranteed wide open shot or layup on every possession.
 
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I need to not read any press conference quotes. Because when I see Wieskamp and Keegan talk about how Sunday was the best, most intense practice they've had all year, then they play a first 12 minutes like they did tonight, I get extra pissed.
 

Shpadoinkle

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They actually figured out their rotations in the zone when the backups were in. They didn’t get sucked over to one side as bad as they usually do though Keegan still did a couple times. They did a pretty good job guarding the high post after a couple of fuck ups.

The only problem was they didn’t rebound out of it worth a shit.
The backups’ ability to cover twice as much ground as the starters was a factor.
 

CamelTones

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Connor was terrible. Probably the worst game he’s ever played at Iowa. He’s also become an atrocious free throw shooter.
 

douglasbader

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I get Fran wants to hire guys he is totally comfortable with and knows like Billy Taylor and I guess will be keeping Speraw and Sherm around forever, but for the love of fuck he should get a little bold and make an actual defensive coaching hire.
 
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I really like pretty much our top 11 guys but sometimes it seems like they just don't mesh the best or because of seniority we're not seeing the best combinations.

Ulis definitely has a great feel for the game and might be our best pure PG but I can see why Fran is hesitant to take minutes from a legend and a sophomore that played pretty damn solid last year.

Then you have Nunge that is a great backup 5 and would be a starter on a hell of alot of teams but he gets alot of time out of position because of the NPOY.

Keegan and Patrick are both really promising but do alot of the same things. Outside of shooting I really like our guys off the bench almost better in alot of areas but they all play together so their weakness sticks out. It's a similar situation for the starters but in reverse in alot of areas.

Anyway, that's alot of rambling to get to the point that I'm glad Fran was tinkering with the lineup because I think some different combinations could make this team even better.
We're better for good chunks with our backups at like 3 spots around Luka, except we're not because we either need shooters or Connor to help facilitate and feed Luka. Then when things are clicking and they keep defenses honest, Luka feasts or we get open 3's for knockdown shooters. But then they don't guard and the bench is an upgrade.

There's always different skill sets but we have a pretty extreme difference between skill, athleticism, ability to play through contact and defensive intensity, it's kind of crazy.
 

douglasbader

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I’m in awe at how terrible Joe W is at the rim
I've never seen a kid that is 6'6'' and legit athletic enough to dunk hard in the half court that gets his shot blocked more than he does or airball layups or stumble around more.

I said it all year and will keep saying it, he has no ability to improvise. Once he decides the pre-programmed move he is going to make in his head, it is locked in and there is no changing it on the fly.

You saw it multiple times tonight. The one that stood out the most is where he cut to the basket and got a beautiful pass from Garza that should have been an easy layup. As he was catching it he had decided he would gather and go up, but right after a Michigan State player slightly flashed and he was fucked from that point. He hesitated, then slipped and then airballed a point blank layup. If he had any improv to his game, he would have immediately defaulted to a left hand or a step through, or half a dozen other things, but he doesn't so it ended up being a cringe worthy finish to the play.
 

Shpadoinkle

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I get Fran wants to hire guys he is totally comfortable with and knows like Billy Taylor and I guess will be keeping Speraw and Sherm around forever, but for the love of fuck he should get a little bold and make an actual defensive coaching hire.
Tonight is a great example of the dilemma that Fran faces. Jordan, Weiskamp and Cj are the guys that can get you to 100 points a game, but also allow 100 from the opponent.
 

douglasbader

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Same thing later in the 2nd half as well, he saw a lane and locked in the drive and layup to the opposite side of the backboard, but the Michigan State player baited him into it and just pinned the shit out of it.
 

douglasbader

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Tonight is a great example of the dilemma that Fran faces. Jordan, Weiskamp and Cj are the guys that can get you to 100 points a game, but also allow 100 from the opponent.
I think Wieskamp is mostly fine on defense and most nights he is a fantastic rebounder. CJ is good in man to man, but he is uber stupid in zone and rebounds like shit. bohannon is just who he is. If he is hitting 4+ threes, good luck beating Iowa. If he isn't, he is a total detriment other than late game free throws.
 
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Tonight is a great example of the dilemma that Fran faces. Jordan, Weiskamp and Cj are the guys that can get you to 100 points a game, but also allow 100 from the opponent.
I'm not ready to say that for Weiskamp and a healthy CJ. CJ was a legit good on ball defender when healthy. He's obviously fucked up some rotations and been hobbled this year though.
 

CamelTones

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If you take Luka out of the equation and allow him to play with both units, the starters have a much higher ceiling. But that requires a healthy CJ and Connor to make 1 of his 5 three point attempts.
 
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Also, it’s crazy that Fran surrounded Luka with practically no reliable three point shooters and still had a productive offense.
Best part of some of these uneven games has been getting Perkins and Uhlis meaningful minutes. They're gonna be good. In December Uhlis showed a lot of promise but it was hard to get any read on Perkins. Not anymore. Keegan is good and Pat's gonna be good. Hopefully a good blend of toughness, athleticism with just enough shooting.
 
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If you take Luka out of the equation and allow him to play with both units, the starters have a much higher ceiling. But that requires a healthy CJ and Connor to make 1 of his 5 three point attempts.
Yes they have a much higher ceiling offensively, especially in the half court. The second unit may make it easier on themselves getting stops and getting out in transition though. I also think Keegan Pat and Nunge are much better rebounders. I don't think the gap is that wide if we don't overemphasize offense.
 

douglasbader

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We talked about it in chat, but it's fucking infuriating and makes no sense why the guards and wings keep getting sucked into the lane to help on big guys and leaving shooters alone.

I mean, have they not had it drilled in their head that you want the other team to throw it into a 6'10'' clod of a player and have him chuck 15 footers or try to get a contested tough shot against Garza or Nunge? Do they not understand that them getting sucked into the lane is exactly what the other team is trying to do? That the other team is completely relying on it happening every time so it frees up shooters for wide open threes?

I lost count of how many times Michigan State would throw it in to that #15 white stiff and Marble and every fucking time like bugs to a shiny light, here would come all the guards turning their head and floating towards them only to have the ball kicked out and swung for a wide open shot. There was a couple of times that Michigan State threw it into the high post/elbow area and 4 fucking defenders all came to help. It's madness and that coaching staff should auto-bench anyone that gives Luka or Nunge help in the post.
 

CamelTones

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I don’t know why they don’t allow teams to shoot 15 footers. I get they’re trying to protect the drive and Garza getting in foul trouble but still. Look at how many times Langford pumped faked from 3, dribbled in to a 15 footer and hit the front of the rim. Players today are not comfortable in the mid range. Hauser had a wide open look from the free throw line and shot it like a golfer standing over a 5 foot putt after lipping one out on the previous hole. 0 confidence. Drilled the back of the rim.
 

Talkin' Goat

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I've never seen a kid that is 6'6'' and legit athletic enough to dunk hard in the half court that gets his shot blocked more than he does or airball layups or stumble around more.

I said it all year and will keep saying it, he has no ability to improvise. Once he decides the pre-programmed move he is going to make in his head, it is locked in and there is no changing it on the fly.

You saw it multiple times tonight. The one that stood out the most is where he cut to the basket and got a beautiful pass from Garza that should have been an easy layup. As he was catching it he had decided he would gather and go up, but right after a Michigan State player slightly flashed and he was fucked from that point. He hesitated, then slipped and then airballed a point blank layup. If he had any improv to his game, he would have immediately defaulted to a left hand or a step through, or half a dozen other things, but he doesn't so it ended up being a cringe worthy finish to the play.
In that situation, he’s basically the anti Keegan Murray. Keegan isn’t perfect by any means, but he’s really fucking good at improvising and just doing what comes naturally. Him being so smooth and long and athletic is just awesome.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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We talked about it in chat, but it's fucking infuriating and makes no sense why the guards and wings keep getting sucked into the lane to help on big guys and leaving shooters alone.

I mean, have they not had it drilled in their head that you want the other team to throw it into a 6'10'' clod of a player and have him chuck 15 footers or try to get a contested tough shot against Garza or Nunge? Do they not understand that them getting sucked into the lane is exactly what the other team is trying to do? That the other team is completely relying on it happening every time so it frees up shooters for wide open threes?

I lost count of how many times Michigan State would throw it in to that #15 white stiff and Marble and every fucking time like bugs to a shiny light, here would come all the guards turning their head and floating towards them only to have the ball kicked out and swung for a wide open shot. There was a couple of times that Michigan State threw it into the high post/elbow area and 4 fucking defenders all came to help. It's madness and that coaching staff should auto-bench anyone that gives Luka or Nunge help in the post.
This is why the freedom of movement will be good for Iowa in the tournament argument is so fucking stupid. They're not going to lose because of a lack of freedom of movement, they're going to lose because they're complete and total ass on the defensive end.
 

douglasbader

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Here is one sequence early in the game that defines the problem with Iowa on Defense. There are about 20 other examples in this game, but let's start with this because it's pretty bad.....

- Michigan State ball, score 5-3. Iowa is in zone and bohannon has no clue where he supposed to be at. He ends up on the near wing. They pass the ball to the other side of the floor, and for whatever reason bohannon drifts too far to the middle and Michigan State simply swings the ball to Langford on the wing and bohannon is too slow and out of position and gives up a wide open three.

- Iowa now has the ball, they get a couple of offensive rebounds and kick it out to Connor and he passes to bohannon who hits the three.

- Michigan State quickly inbounds the ball and bohannon, who is the first person back, for some reason first runs to the opposite side of the court where Wieskamp is already running to as that is his side of the floor the same it was the last possession. Michigan State makes one pass right to Langford on the wing, and because bohannon is a dumbfuck he is late and out of position and fake hustles going for a "steal" he is never going to get. Langford gets the ball, takes 2 dribbles and smoothly hits a wide open jumper.

To sum this up, the game is barely 3 minutes in and your 5th year senior PG leader of the team has given up 5 points to the same guy on back to back possessions because he had no clue where he was supposed to be in the zone, wandered around lost, drifted and gave up a couple of the easiest most wide open looks you will see.
 

Hawk&Balls

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Joe doesn't have any chance at the nba. Let alone the g league. Too soft.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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That being said, they're capable of going on a run against the right match ups.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Here is one sequence early in the game that defines the problem with Iowa on Defense. There are about 20 other examples in this game, but let's start with this because it's pretty bad.....

- Michigan State ball, score 5-3. Iowa is in zone and bohannon has no clue where he supposed to be at. He ends up on the near wing. They pass the ball to the other side of the floor, and for whatever reason bohannon drifts too far to the middle and Michigan State simply swings the ball to Langford on the wing and bohannon is too slow and out of position and gives up a wide open three.

- Iowa now has the ball, they get a couple of offensive rebounds and kick it out to Connor and he passes to bohannon who hits the three.

- Michigan State quickly inbounds the ball and bohannon, who is the first person back, for some reason first runs to the opposite side of the court where Wieskamp is already running to as that is his side of the floor the same it was the last possession. Michigan State makes one pass right to Langford on the wing, and because bohannon is a dumbfuck he is late and out of position and fake hustles going for a "steal" he is never going to get. Langford gets the ball, takes 2 dribbles and smoothly hits a wide open jumper.

To sum this up, the game is barely 3 minutes in and your 5th year senior PG leader of the team has given up 5 points to the same guy on back to back possessions because he had no clue where he was supposed to be in the zone, wandered around lost, drifted and gave up a couple of the easiest most wide open looks you will see.
There are zero principles to their zone defense. 3 passes on there's a break down somewhere. Usually with 2 idiots guarding the same guy on a wing. Wide open three.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I feel like the offensive motion is different with the bench in there, maybe because of the lack of outside shooters. You aren’t running as much stuff to get Toussaint, Perkins, and patrick loose as you are for the starters who can actually shoot. Maybe they have more energy for the defensive end because they aren’t working so hard to get loose on the perimeter. Or maybe i am stupid.
 

L. Wade Childress

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By the way, did they ever reverse that stick ball call or did they play on? Honestly I don’t think I have ever seen that happen.
 

douglasbader

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Holy shit, the very next sequence after the one above....

- Score is 10-6 and Connor bricks a three. Michigan State comes up the court and Iowa has now gone man to man because bohannon fucked up the last 2 possessions in the zone.

- MSU recognizes they are in man and they set up a simple high ball screen with Keegan's guy (Aaron Henry) and Luka's guy (#15).

- Luka still hasn't been taught to hedge but get depth into the lane, so he hedges too much and too high and for no reason as Keegan was fine, but this causes Connor to have to over help on #15 who is rolling to the rim. What does this cause? Joey Hauser simply catches a short pass at the three point line and there isn't an Iowa player with 15 feet of him. The only reason it wasn't a wide open three is because they called a foul on Connor for blocking #15

They are soooooo fucking stupid and it doesn't matter if it is man or zone.
 

douglasbader

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Joe doesn't have any chance at the nba. Let alone the g league. Too soft.
Lol. This is going too far. Are you aware who is and has played in the G-League? For fuck's sake Baer played an entire year in the G League and actually played a decent amount.
 

douglasbader

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Doug i think you should contact Fran to volunteer as a defensive coach and get this all sorted out.
I said in chat that I really would love to win the Powerball and donate $100m to the athletic program on the condition that I get 1 hour per week with the team to do a film session where I do nothing but highlight these and scream at them.
 

CamelTones

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The NBA actually fits Joes game better than college. More freedom of movement and all he would have to do is shoot 3s.
 
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