#2 Iowa vs #7 Oregon • Second Round• 11:10 • CBS

MikeyJoe

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A friend was arguing that the Big Ten just lacks the athletes overall and looks slower to the eye. If the NBA draft favors pure athletes over college production, then conference representation might provide a clue. I think this is a year or two old but NBA players by conference:

ACC - 83
SEC - 71
PAC 12 - 67
Big 12 -44
Big 10 - 42

Also, last BT champion was 20 years ago.
In basketball in particular I don't think that's a particularly strong argument. Those are dominated by teams, not conferences. Is the SEC a good conference because Kentucky has had a shit ton of guys drafted and won titles, or is Kentucky just really good?

It does obviously point to the fact that the Big Ten hasn't put together a dominant individual team in quite some time.
 

MikeyJoe

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I'm not a Fran hater but this is what's most frustrating about him. He just doesn't grasp the intensity or elimination basketball. He clearly goes into that zone to avoid fouls before the half because of his bizarre obsession with not just avoiding fouling out but avoiding being kinda close to fouling out.
It' doesn't fucking matter at this point, whatever is working you keep doing it and worry about fucking fouls at the end of the game. This is it. there's no games tomorrow if you fucking lose just keep everyone thats playing well in and when you know the zone doesn't work stop fucking around with it.
This is probably (other than recruiting) my number one coaching gripe with Fran. Sometimes it's almost like he thinks individual players fouling out is on par with losing games in terms of outcomes to avoid.
 

The Dad

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Watching them repeatedly drive/cut down a wide open lane with not a single fucking player willing or able to step in to contest or take a charge was probably the most triggered I have ever been watching an Iowa basketball game.
 

The Dad

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Watching them repeatedly drive/cut down a wide open lane with not a single fucking player willing or able to step in to contest or take a charge was probably the most triggered I have ever been watching an Iowa basketball game.
This is probably as close as we ever came. Look at these fucks!!!!!!!!!!

1616508856334.jpeg
 

The Incredible Hawk

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Watching them repeatedly drive/cut down a wide open lane with not a single fucking player willing or able to step in to contest or take a charge was probably the most triggered I have ever been watching an Iowa basketball game.
Watching the dunk highlights over and over last night during the other games and multiple Iowa players just standing there watching them hammer it home was infuriating.
 

coff

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Way too many on here are viewing the loss yesterday as if Iowa was the only team that had a shit game and was beaten by a lower seed and that means that Iowa sucks and was overrated all year.

In case anyone forgot, the following teams are in the exact same situation....

#1 Illinois
#2 Ohio State
#3 Texas
#3 Kansas
#3 West Virginia
#4 Purdue
#4 Oklahoma State
#4 Virginia
#5 Tennessee


#2 Houston, #3 Arkansas and #5 Creighton were nearly on that list if not for a few lucky breaks.
As usual, you demonstrate just how little you know about most everything.
 

coff

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Watching them repeatedly drive/cut down a wide open lane with not a single fucking player willing or able to step in to contest or take a charge was probably the most triggered I have ever been watching an Iowa basketball game.
What was worse was that in many instances, they didn't do this because they had their heads turned and didn't even see the driver. See man- see ball, does not seem to be a priority.
 

Creed

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I’ve been watching Iowa lose in the second round for nearly 25 years
My son is 7. He’s seeing a repeat of everything I saw at his age. It’s generational ineptitude.
 

CamelTones

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The matchup zone was pretty effective late in the season, at least in comparison to the trash zone we were running in the first half of the year. And it was disruptive when the second unit was in during the first half of the game yesterday. But those last 2 minutes with the starters it was ineffective and it snowballed on Fran quickly.
The worst play in the zone yesterday was when Iowa was up 41-37 after Garzas 3 point play. They immediately give up a wide open 3 because 2 guys both sprinted at the guy on the wing with the ball. Both pointed to the guy first like ‘hey, you put in the effort.’

It was like a 4 way stop where 2 cars get to the intersection at the same time and both awkwardly start and stop and wave each other on for 2 minutes before one finally drives. Meanwhile all the other cars are honking and cursing which is Garza sprinting out to contest the shot. Once it’s all over they drive off and both drivers say ‘that person was a fucking moron.’
 
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I’m not buying that the top two conferences indisputably all year were actually just overrated all along. And the PAC 12 which has sucked for years is actually amazing. Can’t explain the why, a lot of teams just underperformed and others came out of nowhere at the right time. Just clustered by leagues.
 

Mo T

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I’m not buying that the top two conferences indisputably all year were actually just overrated all along. And the PAC 12 which has sucked for years is actually amazing. Can’t explain the why, a lot of teams just underperformed and others came out of nowhere at the right time. Just clustered by leagues.
After watching the games, I'm buying it.
 

The Dad

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Any zone where the wing/corner cover is a Gordian Knot for the wing defender is probably not viable.
 

Saul Berkley

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I'm not a Fran hater but this is what's most frustrating about him. He just doesn't grasp the intensity or elimination basketball. He clearly goes into that zone to avoid fouls before the half because of his bizarre obsession with not just avoiding fouling out but avoiding being kinda close to fouling out.
It' doesn't fucking matter at this point, whatever is working you keep doing it and worry about fucking fouls at the end of the game. This is it. there's no games tomorrow if you fucking lose just keep everyone thats playing well in and when you know the zone doesn't work stop fucking around with it.
It's because he's not a good in game coach. He's great at developing talent but struggles with the in game X's and O's.
 

CamelTones

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It's because he's not a good in game coach. He's great at developing talent but struggles with the in game X's and O's.
It feels like this is something people say to sound like they know what they’re talking about amongst people but never give examples of how they’re a bad Xs and Os coach.

He went 22-9 with some slow white guys and has always had a really good offense. I think he knows what he’s doing. Does he need help on defense? Of course, but his OOB plays are always great, and he’s produced some of the highest scoring players in Iowa history out of borderline bad recruiting. Sometimes there just isn’t an adjustment that’s going to work.
 

The Dad

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Is anyone making the argument that he struggles with in-game offense? If so, that’s fucking dumb.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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It feels like this is something people say to sound like they know what they’re talking about amongst people but never give examples of how they’re a bad Xs and Os coach.

He went 22-9 with some slow white guys and has always had a really good offense. I think he knows what he’s doing. Does he need help on defense? Of course, but his OOB plays are always great, and he’s produced some of the highest scoring players in Iowa history out of borderline bad recruiting. Sometimes there just isn’t an adjustment that’s going to work.
Lots of opportunities to score when the other team is going through a layup line. Luka not included.
 

The Dad

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I'm OK with everything Fran does except for his stupid foul-out of the first half theory and defensive coaching. He even seemed to figure out substitutions this year.
So you’re okay with everything he does except for the part that makes up 50% of the game?

If that’s what you’re saying, I agree.
 

MikeyJoe

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It feels like this is something people say to sound like they know what they’re talking about amongst people but never give examples of how they’re a bad Xs and Os coach.

He went 22-9 with some slow white guys and has always had a really good offense. I think he knows what he’s doing. Does he need help on defense? Of course, but his OOB plays are always great, and he’s produced some of the highest scoring players in Iowa history out of borderline bad recruiting. Sometimes there just isn’t an adjustment that’s going to work.
Whenever someone just says "bad in game coach" without specifics, I hear this:

 

Saul Berkley

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It feels like this is something people say to sound like they know what they’re talking about amongst people but never give examples of how they’re a bad Xs and Os coach.

He went 22-9 with some slow white guys and has always had a really good offense. I think he knows what he’s doing. Does he need help on defense? Of course, but his OOB plays are always great, and he’s produced some of the highest scoring players in Iowa history out of borderline bad recruiting. Sometimes there just isn’t an adjustment that’s going to work.
Well, for starters, playing the zone was stupid. Secondly, trying to outrun Oregon wasn't exactly a great strategy.

I don't think the defense is just "well he has a bunch of slow white guys". So do lots of teams and they don't give up 10 uncontested dunks in an NCAA game.

As for all the answers, I don't have all of them as I'm obviously not a college basketball coach. But it's pretty obvious defense has long been an issue for Fran's teams.
 

Shawneemicks

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Gary is paying Fran millions of dollars. He needs to start using some of that money to for pay perimeter quickness.
 
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Well, for starters, playing the zone was stupid. Secondly, trying to outrun Oregon wasn't exactly a great strategy.

I don't think the defense is just "well he has a bunch of slow white guys". So do lots of teams and they don't give up 10 uncontested dunks in an NCAA game.

As for all the answers, I don't have all of them as I'm obviously not a college basketball coach. But it's pretty obvious defense has long been an issue for Fran's teams.
Running on Oregon was working. The zone that helped Iowa go from 4 up to 10 down killed Iowa's chances completely. Oregon isn't deep, and having them chase in transition was getting them into the beginnings of foul trouble.

People are kind of forgetting that Oregon had a legitimately hot start helped by Iowa's awful defense, but then made some garbage shots. A banked in three and a few twos with crazy angles.

Fran put an end to the tough 2s problem by going to zone and giving wide open threes and easy backdoor cuts.

I have never been so certain that a halftime deficit would double as I was yesterday. Just defeated in a span of like 2 minutes.

Fuck.
 

Saul Berkley

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Running on Oregon was working. The zone that helped Iowa go from 4 up to 10 down killed Iowa's chances completely. Oregon isn't deep, and having them chase in transition was getting them into the beginnings of foul trouble.

People are kind of forgetting that Oregon had a legitimately hot start helped by Iowa's awful defense, but then made some garbage shots. A banked in three and a few twos with crazy angles.

Fran put an end to the tough 2s problem by going to zone and giving wide open threes and easy backdoor cuts.

I have never been so certain that a halftime deficit would double as I was yesterday. Just defeated in a span of like 2 minutes.

Fuck.
Yep. The zone killed our chances. I was fine trading buckets. Then as you mention, they started hitting 3s while we were missing long contested 3s. A recipe for disaster.
 

MikeyJoe

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Running on Oregon was working. The zone that helped Iowa go from 4 up to 10 down killed Iowa's chances completely. Oregon isn't deep, and having them chase in transition was getting them into the beginnings of foul trouble.

People are kind of forgetting that Oregon had a legitimately hot start helped by Iowa's awful defense, but then made some garbage shots. A banked in three and a few twos with crazy angles.

Fran put an end to the tough 2s problem by going to zone and giving wide open threes and easy backdoor cuts.

I have never been so certain that a halftime deficit would double as I was yesterday. Just defeated in a span of like 2 minutes.

Fuck.
That's how I felt too. Sometimes guys just make shots. If a post player makes three spin around fadeaways in a row, don't panic. Let him keep taking them. It absolutely felt like Iowa overreacted to Oregon hitting shots early and went to a defense that just didn't work.
 

MikeyJoe

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Basketball 101....a team starts lighting you up from 3, go zone.
I said it during chat, but the worst part about Iowa's zone is I always feel like I can see the open shot coming for about 5 seconds before it happens.

Like here, right at the beginning of the run:

1616517361637.png

As soon as the dude starts running out to get the pass, it's like fuck. The dude in the corner is gonna shoot a wide open 3.
 

Stu Beagle

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Iowa is just better when CJ is healthy and confident and not pump faking wide open 3’s
 

Thomas Wolsey

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I said it during chat, but the worst part about Iowa's zone is I always feel like I can see the open shot coming for about 5 seconds before it happens.

Like here, right at the beginning of the run:

View attachment 26803

As soon as the dude starts running out to get the pass, it's like fuck. The dude in the corner is gonna shoot a wide open 3.
It is always great when you have 3 guys guarding 2.
 
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