Banks vs Vandy

[blacklespaul]

Had that made earlier.

BTW, hi.

Only took me about 2 months and 5 emails to monster to get approved here.

you were emailing the wrong guy. homo.

 

[ivan_drago]

It will be the biggest snub in Big Ten history.

Umm. No.

Like always, a spot on analysis from our resident football guru.

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

yeah he made great decisions down the stretch at Minnesota throwing to Brad Herman two or three times on the final drive.

he also couldnt throw it in the ocean versus MSU

Give me a break. First of all, he was pressured. Secondly, do you know what the play call was? Were other receivers "wide open"? Maybe, just maybe, other receivers' routes hadn't developed yet or mmaybe the coverage was too tight and shitty Brad Herman was his only option? That's more on the coaches for even having Herman in there in the first place rather than CJ.

But you're right, he's not that good because he couldn't save this shitty team against ISU, Minnesota, MSU and PSU.

Everything the team does adds up to get to those points in those games, nolook. You know that. Maybe if one of his receivers hadn't dropped a pass here or there during the game, he wouldn't have been pressured into throwing to Herman in a last ditch effort to beat Minnefuckingsota.

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

And even if he had the game of his life, this Iowa team certainly wasn't going to beat that MSU team. We just aren't nearly as good from top to bottom.

 

[Monster]

I think the seemingly growing notion that Banks was just a lucky guy to be on a great team is fucking absurd and a little sad.

FTR, I think Banks was pretty good too. It wasn't all luck.

 

[Monster]

yeah he made great decisions down the stretch at Minnesota throwing to Brad Herman two or three times on the final drive.

he also couldnt throw it in the ocean versus MSU

Give me a break. First of all, he was pressured. Secondly, do you know what the play call was? Were other receivers "wide open"? Maybe, just maybe, other receivers' routes hadn't developed yet or mmaybe the coverage was too tight and shitty Brad Herman was his only option? That's more on the coaches for even having Herman in there in the first place rather than CJ.

But you're right, he's not that good because he couldn't save this shitty team against ISU, Minnesota, MSU and PSU.

Everything the team does adds up to get to those points in those games, nolook. You know that. Maybe if one of his receivers hadn't dropped a pass here or there during the game, he wouldn't have been pressured into throwing to Herman in a last ditch effort to beat Minnefuckingsota.

A lot to agree with there. Other guys might have forced the ball - Stanzi in 2008 and 2009 comes to mind - rather than take was looked open. JVB doesn't do everything right, but overall, he usually makes smart decisions with the ball and doesn't turn it over*.

I'm not comparing him to Aaron Rodgers, but Rodgers also takes a lot of sacks. He waits in the pocket for routes to develop and open up. Iowa runs a lot of deeper routes.



*That means he rarely turns it over, LWade, you dumbass.

 

[PipeDaddy]

I think the seemingly growing notion that Banks was just a lucky guy to be on a great team is fucking absurd and a little sad.

Agreed. MH probably believes you could throw Jake Christensen into the starting QB role that season and they would have done just as well.

Does Vandy have a better arm? Certainly. Does he have a better upside for the NFL? Absolutely. Is he a better overall QB right now than Banks was that season? That's just plain silly.

I've still got most of the games from the 2002 season on DVR. The notion that Banks just sat back in the backfield with all day to throw the ball and make decisions is simply not true. And while Iowa had some fairly good WRs, they were not McNutt-esque.

So the simplified breakdown is as follows:

Vandy
Better WRs
Inferior competition
No TE
Average OLine
Better arm
More poor decisions

Banks
Inferior WRs
Superior competition
Superior TE
Superior OLine
Poorer arm
Better instincts and decision making
Scrambling ability

I'm not judging Banks on the success of the team any more than I would with Stanzi in his junior year. But to put it another way, if you put JVB (as he currently is) on that 2002 team instead of Banks, it appears some here think that the team would have been better. That notion is incorrect.

 

[PipeDaddy]

Anyone who wants to slight Vandy for his performance this years is a fucking tard. He's been fantastic and his season stats(one of Iowa's best statistical seasons ever) prove that out.

I don't think you have to slight JVB to believe that Banks is a better QB at this point in their careers.

I'm a huge fan of JVB and have been since he signed (before it was trendy!). I also appreciate what Banks brought to the table and don't buy into the "plug anyone in to his situation and they would have done the same" idea.

 

[nolookpass]

yeah he made great decisions down the stretch at Minnesota throwing to Brad Herman two or three times on the final drive.

he also couldnt throw it in the ocean versus MSU

Give me a break. First of all, he was pressured. Secondly, do you know what the play call was? Were other receivers "wide open"? Maybe, just maybe, other receivers' routes hadn't developed yet or mmaybe the coverage was too tight and shitty Brad Herman was his only option? That's more on the coaches for even having Herman in there in the first place rather than CJ.

But you're right, he's not that good because he couldn't save this shitty team against ISU, Minnesota, MSU and PSU.

Everything the team does adds up to get to those points in those games, nolook. You know that. Maybe if one of his receivers hadn't dropped a pass here or there during the game, he wouldn't have been pressured into throwing to Herman in a last ditch effort to beat Minnefuckingsota.

I never said he wasnt "that good."

dont misquote me and then build your argument around that. What I did say is I dont think the stats alone show him to be better at this point of his career than Banks was his senior year.

 

[Whatever]

I think the seemingly growing notion that Banks was just a lucky guy to be on a great team is fucking absurd and a little sad.

+1. Banks' running ability is seriously underrated by alot of Iowa fans.

 

[Gushawk]

I don't disagree with much of that, Pipe, but the notion that Vandy has better WRs as a unit than Banks is a road I'm not sure I can go down with you.

Yes, McNutt is better than either Brown or Jones, but both Brown and Jones are better than Keenan (and that's not a dig on Keenan), and Hinkel is metter than Martin-Manley.

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

yeah he made great decisions down the stretch at Minnesota throwing to Brad Herman two or three times on the final drive.

he also couldnt throw it in the ocean versus MSU

Give me a break. First of all, he was pressured. Secondly, do you know what the play call was? Were other receivers "wide open"? Maybe, just maybe, other receivers' routes hadn't developed yet or mmaybe the coverage was too tight and shitty Brad Herman was his only option? That's more on the coaches for even having Herman in there in the first place rather than CJ.

But you're right, he's not that good because he couldn't save this shitty team against ISU, Minnesota, MSU and PSU.

Everything the team does adds up to get to those points in those games, nolook. You know that. Maybe if one of his receivers hadn't dropped a pass here or there during the game, he wouldn't have been pressured into throwing to Herman in a last ditch effort to beat Minnefuckingsota.

I never said he wasnt "that good."

dont misquote me and then build your argument around that. What I did say is I dont think the stats alone show him to be better at this point of his career than Banks was his senior year.

You were complaining about him in those games and I addressed it. Sorry I misinterpreted your posts as a glowing reveiw of Vandy.

 

[Monster]

Pipe, why do you think JVB makes poor decisions?

 

[Match34]

I give Banks the edge given that he had to overcome growing up in Belle Glade, FL. Keokuk's a shithole, but it's no Belle Glade. Woof.

 

[RecreationalGynecologist]

Monster..he does make poor decisions from time to time..like most QBs

Dancing around in the pocket vs Purdue on our own 1 yard line was a poor decision that led to a Purdue TD

He does have a tendency (Like Stanzi) to telegraph his passes or force balls into double coverage.

Not sure how you could say Banks had inferior WRs.
CJ Jones
Maurice Brown
Ed Hinkel
Dallas Clark

 

[L. Wade Childress]

JVB is mediocre at best. he is having a nice year, but thats mainly because McNutt can get wide open at will.

now, that doesnt necessarily mean that he is going to suck when McNutt leaves, especially if CJ keeps emerging. however at this point i would bet that hawkeye fans are screaming for rudock by the midpoint of the big ten season next year.

 

[Monster]

Of course he does. It sounds like Pipe is saying that it's a bigger problem than it really is.

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

JVB is mediocre at best. he is having a nice year, but thats mainly because McNutt can get wide open at will.

now, that doesnt necessarily mean that he is going to suck when McNutt leaves, especially if CJ keeps emerging. however at this point i would bet that hawkeye fans are screaming for rudock by the midpoint of the big ten season next year.

Holy shit. There it is. I knew it was coming.

 

[PipeDaddy]

I don't disagree with much of that, Pipe, but the notion that Vandy has better WRs as a unit than Banks is a road I'm not sure I can go down with you.

Yes, McNutt is better than either Brown or Jones, but both Brown and Jones are better than Keenan (and that's not a dig on Keenan), and Hinkel is metter than Martin-Manley.

I just think that McNutt offers options that none of those others can offer - his ability to make NFL style plays (throwing to the back shoulder, going up and over the defender to take the fade away, etc.).

Davis and MM are good enough that they are not liabilities compared to the others.

This thread makes me long for a good solid TE this season though. Probably would have been worth another win.

 

[PipeDaddy]

Pipe, why do you think JVB makes poor decisions?

For a first year starter I think he is doing fine from a decision making standpoint. So I'm not saying he routinely makes poor decisions. It's just that Banks didn't make many at all that season - and that was his biggest asset to me. (Note I said more poor decisions - it was a comparison).

Every once in awhile during a game (typically a road game) Vandy will get that deer in the headlights look and we'll have 2 or 3 very poor offensive series with poor throws, forced passes, etc.

I fully expect next season to show improvement - the biggest question will be whether we'll have the WRs. Is Keenan a WR#1? Can he stay healthy even if he is? Thankfully we prolly have the TE issue settled.

 

[Mr. Hawk]

Lots of people here need to kill themselves.

 

[PipeDaddy]

Lots of people here need to kill themselves.

I knew you never liked me. I knew it all along.

 

[Monster]

Pipe, why do you think JVB makes poor decisions?

For a first year starter I think he is doing fine from a decision making standpoint. So I'm not saying he routinely makes poor decisions. It's just that Banks didn't make many at all that season - and that was his biggest asset to me. (Note I said more poor decisions - it was a comparison).

Every once in awhile during a game (typically a road game) Vandy will get that deer in the headlights look and we'll have 2 or 3 very poor offensive series with poor throws, forced passes, etc.

I fully expect next season to show improvement - the biggest question will be whether we'll have the WRs. Is Keenan a WR#1? Can he stay healthy even if he is? Thankfully we prolly have the TE issue settled.

I think they both made some poor decisions. Not many though. The difference, in my eyes, is JVB is a pure drop back passer. If nothing is open, he's going to eat the ball or throw it away without throwing it away, hence the appearance of poor decision-making.

Banks rolled out a lot, and when something wasn't there, he ran. Iowa adjusted the offense to take advantage of his strengths. The threat to run loosened up the defenses.

 

[Gushawk]

Lots of people here need to kill themselves.

Um, this isn't exactly an area in which you have previously distinguished yourself...

 

[PipeDaddy]

Pipe, why do you think JVB makes poor decisions?

For a first year starter I think he is doing fine from a decision making standpoint. So I'm not saying he routinely makes poor decisions. It's just that Banks didn't make many at all that season - and that was his biggest asset to me. (Note I said more poor decisions - it was a comparison).

Every once in awhile during a game (typically a road game) Vandy will get that deer in the headlights look and we'll have 2 or 3 very poor offensive series with poor throws, forced passes, etc.

I fully expect next season to show improvement - the biggest question will be whether we'll have the WRs. Is Keenan a WR#1? Can he stay healthy even if he is? Thankfully we prolly have the TE issue settled.

I think they both made some poor decisions. Not many though. The difference, in my eyes, is JVB is a pure drop back passer. If nothing is open, he's going to eat the ball or throw it away without throwing it away, hence the appearance of poor decision-making.

Banks rolled out a lot, and when something wasn't there, he ran. Iowa adjusted the offense to take advantage of his strengths. The threat to run loosened up the defenses.

I certainly don't think many or most of his sacks are poor decisions. I want a QB to keep looking down the field when we've got McNutt running around. And a whole lot of this season's sacks are based more upon poor OLine play.

 

[nolookpass]

Lots of people here need to kill themselves.

Um, this isn't exactly an area in which you have previously distinguished yourself...

BAM

 

[FrodoTBaggin]

Pipe, why do you think JVB makes poor decisions?

For a first year starter I think he is doing fine from a decision making standpoint. So I'm not saying he routinely makes poor decisions. It's just that Banks didn't make many at all that season - and that was his biggest asset to me. (Note I said more poor decisions - it was a comparison).

Every once in awhile during a game (typically a road game) Vandy will get that deer in the headlights look and we'll have 2 or 3 very poor offensive series with poor throws, forced passes, etc.

I fully expect next season to show improvement - the biggest question will be whether we'll have the WRs. Is Keenan a WR#1? Can he stay healthy even if he is? Thankfully we prolly have the TE issue settled.

I think they both made some poor decisions. Not many though. The difference, in my eyes, is JVB is a pure drop back passer. If nothing is open, he's going to eat the ball or throw it away without throwing it away, hence the appearance of poor decision-making.

Banks rolled out a lot, and when something wasn't there, he ran. Iowa adjusted the offense to take advantage of his strengths. The threat to run loosened up the defenses.

I think Vandy has done a good job on numerous occassions tucking the ball and picking up yardage.

 

[Thagoods]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

 

[nolookpass]

oh, btw Banks passing rating was 157 that year, Vandys is 149

 

[Thagoods]

Brad Banks was fun, and I wish he had won the Heisman (screw Notre Dame and your lack of defense in that last regular season game) but he was only in that race under the "QB or RB from a Top 5 team" rule.

Except that he finished firmly in 2nd place in votes. Ahead of Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Ken Dorsey, and Byron Leftwich.

Some of you need to re-watch the 2002 season. This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

 

[nolookpass]

Brad Banks was fun, and I wish he had won the Heisman (screw Notre Dame and your lack of defense in that last regular season game) but he was only in that race under the "QB or RB from a Top 5 team" rule.

Except that he finished firmly in 2nd place in votes. Ahead of Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Ken Dorsey, and Byron Leftwich.

Some of you need to re-watch the 2002 season. This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

no kidding.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Banks finished second in the nation in passing efficiency but he was only nominated cause Iowa had a good year.

stick to soccer, Lime.

btw Coker has already surpassed Freddy Russells rushing totals from that year.

 

[Monster]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

i get it. banks was good because of his supporting cast, but JVB throws to a sure-fire NFL draft pick 75% of the time and he is en exceptional QB based on talent alone.

 

[Monster]

Yep. That's exactly what I said, LWade.

 

[nolookpass]

you cant put a number on how many times Banks avoided a sack where JVB took one.

Nobody taking Banks side is saying Vandy isnt good. And with a great senior year, he will end up better.

 

[Thagoods]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

The thing that stands out most in your post is that the teams you mentioned for Banks were all good teams. PSU finished #15, USC #4, and ISU just outside the top 25.
Also, they scored a lot in the PSU game, and still managed to win the game. The defense was responsible for letting PSU back in it.

One thing I should clarify about the crapping the bed comment, though, is that JVB doesn't throw INT's in those situations so it may not be as obvious. He'll take a crucial sack instead, or dump it off for a 3 yard gain on 3 and 13, etc.

Of the Iowa QB's of the 2000's, I'd rank them this way for now. (JVB could move up next year).

1. Banks
2. Tate
3. Stanzi
4. JVB
5. Chandler
6. McCann
7. Christensen

 

[Debit One]

1. Banks
2. Tate
3. Stanzi
4. JVB
5. Chandler
6. McCann
7. Christensen

Racist.

 

[scottsdalehawk]

that is the correct order thagoods, nice work

 

[nolookpass]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

 

[Monster]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Anybody who thinks JVB, at this point, is better than Banks was in his senior year needs to quit watching football.

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

I know JVB takes sacks while Banks didn't take many. There are several reasons for that, and many of those have very little to do with the individual players.

Overall, I love Banks. Great player on a great team. But QB play doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their success or failure depends on the players around them.

 

[sobrien51]

If JVB didn't crap the bed in any sort of pressure situation, he might be able to hold Brad Banks' jock strap.

Why do you hate white people?

 

[Thagoods]

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

I know JVB takes sacks while Banks didn't take many. There are several reasons for that, and many of those have very little to do with the individual players.

Overall, I love Banks. Great player on a great team. But QB play doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their success or failure depends on the players around them.

I get that, but JVB has arguably the best WR in Iowa football history making circus catches all over the field. Lets not act like he's got Don Nordmann as his #1.

 

[CamelTones]

Brad Banks was fun, and I wish he had won the Heisman (screw Notre Dame and your lack of defense in that last regular season game) but he was only in that race under the "QB or RB from a Top 5 team" rule.

Except that he finished firmly in 2nd place in votes. Ahead of Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Ken Dorsey, and Byron Leftwich.

Some of you need to re-watch the 2002 season. This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

no kidding.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Banks finished second in the nation in passing efficiency but he was only nominated cause Iowa had a good year.

stick to soccer, Lime.

btw Coker has already surpassed Freddy Russells rushing totals from that year.

Russell also missed a good chunk of the Michigan game that year, the whole Wisconsin game and I believe part of the ISU game. He also had Jermelle Lewis backing him up who ran for over 700 yards that year, as well as Aaron Greving for about a month.

The worst player to see significant snaps for that offense that year was Clinton Solomon. The worst player to see significant snaps for the offense this year is up for debate with at least 4 guys making the list (Derby, Herman, Tobin, Gimm)

 

[nolookpass]

I loved Banks. He was a great Hawkeye. But he also benefited from an outstanding supporting cast. He had a great season, but I wonder if you forgot Banks' two fumbles late against Iowa State. Is that crapping the bed? Or how he completely disappeared against Penn State, allowing them to come back from a 3-TD deficit and take the game to overtime? Banks wasn't real spectacular against USC, iirc.

My point isn't to bash Banks. My point here is to be realistic about the season he had. He played well, but he also had NFL players all around him. It was a perfect situation for him to shine.

Out of curiosity, what games would you put on JVB so far? Again, like Banks, he's not perfect. But I would hardly say his play is the reason for Iowa's 4 losses. Iowa's defense has been not awesome. I know he came through and was clutch against Pittsburgh. He played well last week on the road. he's played pretty well overall, with a very average supporting cast.

I think when it's all said and done and JVB is in the NFL and Banks is a back up in the Arena league, that will be a significant data point. Plus, I think it should be mentioned that Banks saw action in pretty much every game his junior year. It's not really apples to apples when you look at prior experience.

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

.

we could play this forever. I could rebut with "most of JVBs big days have come against bums."

the reality is Iowa has played three average to above average defenses all year. ISU, PSU and MSU.

Vandy plays well against Nebrantska on the road or in the bowl against a decent team and I may revisit.

 

[Match34]

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

I know JVB takes sacks while Banks didn't take many. There are several reasons for that, and many of those have very little to do with the individual players.

Overall, I love Banks. Great player on a great team. But QB play doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their success or failure depends on the players around them.

I get that, but JVB has arguably the best WR in Iowa football history making circus catches all over the field. Lets not act like he's got Don Nordmann as his #1.

Leave Nordmann out of this!

 

[Monster]

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

.

we could play this forever. I could rebut with "most of JVBs big days have come against bums."

the reality is Iowa has played three average to above average defenses all year. ISU, PSU and MSU.

Vandy plays well against Nebrantska on the road or in the bowl against a decent team and I may revisit.

I think we actually agree more than not.

 

[Monster]

Banks disappeared versus PSU?

4 TDs and over 300 yards combined rushing and passing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002.html

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

I know JVB takes sacks while Banks didn't take many. There are several reasons for that, and many of those have very little to do with the individual players.

Overall, I love Banks. Great player on a great team. But QB play doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their success or failure depends on the players around them.

I get that, but JVB has arguably the best WR in Iowa football history making circus catches all over the field. Lets not act like he's got Don Nordmann as his #1.

Didn't Banks have the Mackey award winner?

 

[valp0guy]

 

[Bovert]

1. Banks
2. Tate
3. Stanzi
4. JVB
5. Chandler
6. McCann
7. Christensen

Racist.

Drop Banks to 3rd and move Tate and Stanzi up to 1st and 2nd and the list would be correct

 

[Thagoods]

Yep. Much of that was in the first half when Iowa built a big lead.

I know JVB takes sacks while Banks didn't take many. There are several reasons for that, and many of those have very little to do with the individual players.

Overall, I love Banks. Great player on a great team. But QB play doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their success or failure depends on the players around them.

I get that, but JVB has arguably the best WR in Iowa football history making circus catches all over the field. Lets not act like he's got Don Nordmann as his #1.

Didn't Banks have the Mackey award winner?

Yes, but I'm not the one making the "Banks played with the greatest team ever" argument.