**Iowa vs. Michigan Basketball - 12/6/19 - 5:30pm - FS1**

L. Wade Childress

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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
 
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Our opponents are now shooting 80% from the line on the year. 348th out of 353.
 
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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
I love Fran but there's plenty of middle ground between our defense and constant grabbing, holding, chucking.

I feel like this group is closer to the Woodbury era in terms of at least caring and trying. Still have plenty of physical flaws (and scheme I suppose but I'm not an expert there) to cover but that's a starting point.
 

CamelTones

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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
This is somewhat true. But knowing you’re allowed to mug the shit out of the other team you should probably mug the shit out of the other team.
 

Hawk4Life94

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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
I love Fran but there's plenty of middle ground between our defense and constant grabbing, holding, chucking.

I feel like this group is closer to the Woodbury era in terms of at least caring and trying. Still have plenty of physical flaws (and scheme I suppose but I'm not an expert there) to cover but that's a starting point.
I'm not at practice. (@Monster) But I can guarantee you they work on defense. It has everything to do with Fran's philosophy of defense.

The easiest way to explain it is he wants to defend how he wants his team defended. Which makes 0 sense in the B10.
 

douglasbader

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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
Come on man. There is a difference in Izzo ball and Fran ball where he never coaches guys to not over help or get out of position.

Iowa players are constantly out of position and have poor awareness. That has nothing to do with "playing basketball how it was intended to be played".
 

douglasbader

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How many hedges by a center 30 feet from the hoop and then asking the center to have to sprint back into the lane? How many times is Garza going to take 2 steps over to help when it should be a half step? How many times will the wing guys in the zone not have a single clue where anyone is? How many times will guys on the block in the zone step up way too far into the lane and allow an immediate dump down for a layup?

Look at the 2 plays when Iowa was down 7 at the under 8 timeout. Michigan came out and got a layup and a dunk because Garza still has no clue how to simply take space up in the lane and not get out of position.
 
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Fran plays offense the way it is intended to be played. I just hope he recruits a few more guys like Toussaint and Fredrick that have a little pride so it overcomes his shitty defensive principles.
 
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It really fucking annoys me how fran gets crucified for how he coaches defense when we play basketball how it was intended to be played.
Come on man. There is a difference in Izzo ball and Fran ball where he never coaches guys to not over help or get out of position.

Iowa players are constantly out of position and have poor awareness. That has nothing to do with "playing basketball how it was intended to be played".
Iowa has a couple of players that tend to get caught watching the ball and lose their man often resulting in an easy score. That happens to every player once in a while, but it shouldn't happen as often as it does for some guys.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Excuse our faggotry. That's how basketball should be played! Jesus fucking Christ.
 

Hawk4Life94

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How many hedges by a center 30 feet from the hoop and then asking the center to have to sprint back into the lane? How many times is Garza going to take 2 steps over to help when it should be a half step? How many times will the wing guys in the zone not have a single clue where anyone is? How many times will guys on the block in the zone step up way too far into the lane and allow an immediate dump down for a layup?

Look at the 2 plays when Iowa was down 7 at the under 8 timeout. Michigan came out and got a layup and a dunk because Garza still has no clue how to simply take space up in the lane and not get out of position.
I hate the hard hedge by a big. Just straight double it and roll the dice on a turnover.
 

douglasbader

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Excuse our faggotry. That's how basketball should be played! Jesus fucking Christ.
You don't even have to play tough or hack and grab, all you have to do is not be out of position over an over an over.

We have talked about this multiple times with @CamelTones being a proponent of it, but if you took Fran's elite offense (currently #5 in the country) and played pack line defense, then Iowa would be so much better. They would still be an elite offense and at worst a Top 70 defense. That would be more than enough to make the tournament every single year.
 

L. Wade Childress

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Ok fine. The hedging drives me nuts. As does guarding the empty space inside the arc. But otherwise I am correct so fuck off!!
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Excuse our faggotry. That's how basketball should be played! Jesus fucking Christ.
You don't even have to play tough or hack and grab, all you have to do is not be out of position over an over an over.

We have talked about this multiple times with @CamelTones being a proponent of it, but if you took Fran's elite offense (currently #5 in the country) and played pack line defense, then Iowa would be so much better. They would still be an elite offense and at worst a Top 70 defense. That would be more than enough to make the tournament every single year.
correct. All you have to do is not be embarrassingly terrible.
 

Hawk4Life94

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Excuse our faggotry. That's how basketball should be played! Jesus fucking Christ.
You don't even have to play tough or hack and grab, all you have to do is not be out of position over an over an over.

We have talked about this multiple times with @CamelTones being a proponent of it, but if you took Fran's elite offense (currently #5 in the country) and played pack line defense, then Iowa would be so much better. They would still be an elite offense and at worst a Top 70 defense. That would be more than enough to make the tournament every single year.
Syracuse 2-3 with Iowa offense is probably final 4.
 

douglasbader

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I was actually off on the current ratings. After the Michigan game tonight Iowa dropped one spot on KenPom to #40 in the country.

They now have the #3 offense in the country and the #128!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If they could get that to like #85 they would be really fucking dangerous.
 

douglasbader

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Ok fine. The hedging drives me nuts. As does guarding the empty space inside the arc. But otherwise I am correct so fuck off!!
I think my favorite of the horrible defense is where the middle guy in the zone sprints up at a 6'10'' guy at the free throw line and immediately leaves the entire lane open for the easiest bounce pass for a layup.

Hey, maybe let that 6'10'' guy that can't shoot take one of the worst shots in basketball instead of giving up a layup!
 

FrodoTBaggin

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I mean what kind of sense does that make? I've seen other idiots make that argument as well.

We play like it's 1981! That's how basketball should be!

Yeah, well, it's not, retard. Adapt.
 

douglasbader

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#3 offense. #128!!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If Fran would hire a defensive specialist instead of Billy Fucking Taylor, maybe that would change.

Hire Bergman.
 

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I was actually off on the current ratings. After the Michigan game tonight Iowa dropped one spot on KenPom to #40 in the country.

They now have the #3 offense in the country and the #128!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If they could get that to like #85 they would be really fucking dangerous.
It’s not going to happen Doug. Should hopefully be an entertaining season, but it’s not going to be because of a significantly improved defense.
 

CamelTones

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I get why Fran was doing it, but he should have abandoned the 3/4 court press tonight. Yeah, it runs some time off the clock but the team was in scramble mode trying to get in position and resulted in them being a rotation behind way too often in the zone.

But their defensive issues are compounded by the fact that when they do actually play decent defense and the other team misses they are in no position to get the rebound.
 

Hawk4Life94

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#3 offense. #128!!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If Fran would hire a defensive specialist instead of Billy Fucking Taylor, maybe that would change.

Hire Bergman.
Lol

2 of those kids could play for Bergman...and they're both related to Fran. Maybe Touissant, he likes to get after it.
 

CamelTones

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I was actually off on the current ratings. After the Michigan game tonight Iowa dropped one spot on KenPom to #40 in the country.

They now have the #3 offense in the country and the #128!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If they could get that to like #85 they would be really fucking dangerous.
It’s not going to happen Doug. Should hopefully be an entertaining season, but it’s not going to be because of a significantly improved defense.
I don’t know. I’m interested in what they look like when they swap out Bohannon for Joe T. I have no idea why Fran has Jordan on Simpson tonight. That made no sense. Joe T was pissing Simpson off.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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I get why Fran was doing it, but he should have abandoned the 3/4 court press tonight. Yeah, it runs some time off the clock but the team was in scramble mode trying to get in position and resulted in them being a rotation behind way too often in the zone.

But their defensive issues are compounded by the fact that when they do actually play decent defense and the other team misses they are in no position to get the rebound.
Our zone is somehow way fucking worse than our man to man. Run pack line like what Doug said. The other team doesn't burn you from deep and you're likely to win. Our retarded zone gets over extended, somehow, every fucking possession. Then we can't rebound.
 

douglasbader

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I get why Fran was doing it, but he should have abandoned the 3/4 court press tonight. Yeah, it runs some time off the clock but the team was in scramble mode trying to get in position and resulted in them being a rotation behind way too often in the zone.

But their defensive issues are compounded by the fact that when they do actually play decent defense and the other team misses they are in no position to get the rebound.
If Bohannon ends up redshirting, I think their defense improves without a significant drop in offense.

The best defense Iowa has played in recent memory was against Texas Tech when Iowa had Fredrick, Toussaint and Bakari in at the top of the defense. They weren't letting anyone penetrate.
 

Hawk4Life94

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#3 offense. #128!!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If Fran would hire a defensive specialist instead of Billy Fucking Taylor, maybe that would change.

Hire Bergman.
Lol

2 of those kids could play for Bergman...and they're both related to Fran. Maybe Touissant, he likes to get after it.
Edit: and Garza.
 

HawkLax6

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Garza's 44 points are the most by a Big Ten player since Glenn Robinson in 1994.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I mean what kind of sense does that make? I've seen other idiots make that argument as well.

We play like it's 1981! That's how basketball should be!

Yeah, well, it's not, retard. Adapt.
If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
 

Hawk4Life94

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I get why Fran was doing it, but he should have abandoned the 3/4 court press tonight. Yeah, it runs some time off the clock but the team was in scramble mode trying to get in position and resulted in them being a rotation behind way too often in the zone.

But their defensive issues are compounded by the fact that when they do actually play decent defense and the other team misses they are in no position to get the rebound.
If Bohannon ends up redshirting, I think their defense improves without a significant drop in offense.

The best defense Iowa has played in recent memory was against Texas Tech when Iowa had Fredrick, Toussaint and Bakari in at the top of the defense. They weren't letting anyone penetrate.
Iowa is probably better in a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1.
 

douglasbader

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I said in chat, but the best power forward on the team currently is actually Connor and I hope they keep using him there.

He is stronger than nearly every PF that Iowa has played, can stay with them on defense and actually rebounds well from there.
 

Talkin' Goat

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I was actually off on the current ratings. After the Michigan game tonight Iowa dropped one spot on KenPom to #40 in the country.

They now have the #3 offense in the country and the #128!!!!!! defense.

Fuck. If they could get that to like #85 they would be really fucking dangerous.
It’s not going to happen Doug. Should hopefully be an entertaining season, but it’s not going to be because of a significantly improved defense.
I don’t know. I’m interested in what they look like when they swap out Bohannon for Joe T. I have no idea why Fran has Jordan on Simpson tonight. That made no sense. Joe T was pissing Simpson off.
Valid. Jordan is even worse than normal. This team will actually be pretty intriguing once he is out. Growth of Joe T and CJ will hopefully be fun to follow.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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I mean what kind of sense does that make? I've seen other idiots make that argument as well.

We play like it's 1981! That's how basketball should be!

Yeah, well, it's not, retard. Adapt.
If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I mean what kind of sense does that make? I've seen other idiots make that argument as well.

We play like it's 1981! That's how basketball should be!

Yeah, well, it's not, retard. Adapt.
If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
And I am saying that iowa is an aberration. Offensive and defensive efficiency live in different silos in his model. It think they are more interdependent with the roster we have. So, you can’t just say “run pack line” without it affecting the offense.

Jesus Christ, fuck you for making me say silos and interdependent.
 

douglasbader

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If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
And I am saying that iowa is an aberration. Offensive and defensive efficiency live in different silos in his model. It think they are more interdependent with the roster we have. So, you can’t just say “run pack line” without it affecting the offense.

Jesus Christ, fuck you for making me say silos and interdependent.
Great, then you are like #15 in offense and #70 in defense. Still a gigantic difference.
 

Talkin' Goat

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If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
And I am saying that iowa is an aberration. Offensive and defensive efficiency live in different silos in his model. It think they are more interdependent with the roster we have. So, you can’t just say “run pack line” without it affecting the offense.

Jesus Christ, fuck you for making me say silos and interdependent.
and model
 

FrodoTBaggin

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If you enjoy random big ten basketball games, or MVC games, that’s up to you. You are also a dumbass.

there’s a reason why iowa-Michigan games are among the most fun to watch.

Yes Fran needs to coach defense better and probably bring in a specific assistant to do so. But I would rather watch this than Wisconsin.

plus frans program is really testing the methodology of KenPom, in that you can’t have frans offense AND a good defense with the players we get. I mean our offense is a goddamn miracle in itself.
I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
And I am saying that iowa is an aberration. Offensive and defensive efficiency live in different silos in his model. It think they are more interdependent with the roster we have. So, you can’t just say “run pack line” without it affecting the offense.

Jesus Christ, fuck you for making me say silos and interdependent.
So what are you saying? If Iowa didn't give up so many points, they wouldn't be able to score to many points? Is that your argument?
 

CamelTones

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It really sucks seeing the guy that’s going to hit the wide open shot 1-2 passes before they throw it to him knowing none of the Iowa players recognize it.

It also sucks knowing exactly where the guy cutting to the basket is going to come from and none of the Iowa players recognize it.

You shouldn’t have to have another player shove one of the 2 guys up top into position in the 2-3 zone but Iowa has to routinely do it. They forget where they’re suppose to be waaaay too often.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Total aberration. Not a very successful aberration but an aberration nonetheless. So yeah.
 
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Fran has shown he can have a solid defense but it requires a lot of good parts. Guards who were decent and athletic enough to keep their man in front mostly, a mobile 7 footer who could rebounder and be a presence even if not a shot blocker and a freak like Uthoff that challenged and blocked shots on the perimeter. And guys who mostly gave a fuck. The Woodbury years ranked 24th, 77th, 34th and 30th in defensive efficiency.

Again I think this group cares and has some pieces but Garza isn't Woodbury or Gabe on the defensive end and requires covering or scheme change. Once Jordan is done we should improve on that end a little. Rebounding had been good but was bad tonight. Connor will fight but will lose some to size. CJ had 0 in 30 minutes tonight, Joe W. needs to be better.
 

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I guess if testing the methodology of Kenpom is the goal instead of winning meaningful games then bully for you, bub. That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

Again, you can have good offense and have not completely fucking retarded defensive philosophies.
And I am saying that iowa is an aberration. Offensive and defensive efficiency live in different silos in his model. It think they are more interdependent with the roster we have. So, you can’t just say “run pack line” without it affecting the offense.

Jesus Christ, fuck you for making me say silos and interdependent.
Great, then you are like #15 in offense and #70 in defense. Still a gigantic difference.
Seems like they kicked the shit out of Syracuse playing that way. Granted Syracuse was shitty but they got after it on defense and won going away while scoring less than usual.
 

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It really sucks seeing the guy that’s going to hit the wide open shot 1-2 passes before they throw it to him knowing none of the Iowa players recognize it.

It also sucks knowing exactly where the guy cutting to the basket is going to come from and none of the Iowa players recognize it.

You shouldn’t have to have another player shove one of the 2 guys up top into position in the 2-3 zone but Iowa has to routinely do it. They forget where they’re suppose to be waaaay too often.
Yup. And Michigan knocked down seemingly every single one of those wide open 3s when the ball was rotating. Or they got an easy layup each time they missed the cut to the hoop.
 
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