**DePaul vs. Iowa - 11/11/19 - 7pm - FS1**

[Thomas Wolsey]

So I am watching the replay over lunch

first depaul basket- Nunge lost and slow to recover on perimeter, comes down and makes awkward rushed runner and misses

second depaul basket- mental mistake by CJ, then dribbles off foot at other end after a stop. Makes up for it with steal, but we miss another awkward runner

3rd basket- legit good post up

4th basket- runout after awful Nunge pass into no mans land, somehow Connor credited with TO

5th basket- runout results in corner three after Connor beats Moore off dribble and Nunge misses a bunny.

13-0, game over. We outscore them the rest of the game. This stuff can all be fixed.

Dude. You can't be serious.

No shit. It was 19-2 ninety seconds after this.

Theeeennn we outscores them the rest of the way.

 

[Verbal]

I actually had no idea it was ever 13-0 or 19-2 until just now. It was 21-8 when I turned it on and I wasn't terribly concerned. One good segment and they're right back in it. Nope.

 

[Bovert]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

 

[L. Wade Childress]

So I am watching the replay over lunch

first depaul basket- Nunge lost and slow to recover on perimeter, comes down and makes awkward rushed runner and misses

second depaul basket- mental mistake by CJ, then dribbles off foot at other end after a stop. Makes up for it with steal, but we miss another awkward runner

3rd basket- legit good post up

4th basket- runout after awful Nunge pass into no mans land, somehow Connor credited with TO

5th basket- runout results in corner three after Connor beats Moore off dribble and Nunge misses a bunny.

13-0, game over. We outscore them the rest of the game. This stuff can all be fixed.

Dude. You can't be serious.

No shit. It was 19-2 ninety seconds after this.

who gives a shit, it was already over.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

And I was totally, completely serious with that comment!!!

 

[douglasbader]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

I agree they made up some of the deficit because it was end of the game, but at least a part of that was having Toussaint able to play defense and attack.

Connor is just the worst play from behind point guard I have ever seen. He gets the ball off a rebound and instead of pushing it and putting pressure on the other team he consistently gets it up to about 5 feet from the 3 point line and stops and pounds the ball for 10 seconds waiting for some long drawn out play to start.

It is horrible especially for a team like Iowa that plays well out of the break and secondary break but is far less effective when the defense has a chance to set up.

 

[HerkyHopeful]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

I agree they made up some of the deficit because it was end of the game, but at least a part of that was having Toussaint able to play defense and attack.

Connor is just the worst play from behind point guard I have ever seen. He gets the ball off a rebound and instead of pushing it and putting pressure on the other team he consistently gets it up to about 5 feet from the 3 point line and stops and pounds the ball for 10 seconds waiting for some long drawn out play to start.

It is horrible especially for a team like Iowa that plays well out of the break and secondary break but is far less effective when the defense has a chance to set up.

Another thing I hate that Connor does is when he dribbles just inside the 3 line and slows to absorb defenders/keep his initial defender on his backside. It reminds me of what Clemmons would do, however Clemmons could then further penetrate and finish where Connor usually gets a hard double and ends up in some sort of tie-up situation where he spazzes out and tries to act like a bad ass fighting for the ball.

 

[6deuce]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

And I was totally, completely serious with that comment!!!

 

[L. Wade Childress]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

I agree they made up some of the deficit because it was end of the game, but at least a part of that was having Toussaint able to play defense and attack.

Connor is just the worst play from behind point guard I have ever seen. He gets the ball off a rebound and instead of pushing it and putting pressure on the other team he consistently gets it up to about 5 feet from the 3 point line and stops and pounds the ball for 10 seconds waiting for some long drawn out play to start.

It is horrible especially for a team like Iowa that plays well out of the break and secondary break but is far less effective when the defense has a chance to set up.

maybe he should try the lowering down from the top method

 

[6deuce]

And of course it was 87-62 with 4 minutes left until we made a run at the very end when they took their foot off the gas, but for lwade logic this 'outscored them the rest of the way' nonsense wasn't actually that bad

I agree they made up some of the deficit because it was end of the game, but at least a part of that was having Toussaint able to play defense and attack.

Connor is just the worst play from behind point guard I have ever seen. He gets the ball off a rebound and instead of pushing it and putting pressure on the other team he consistently gets it up to about 5 feet from the 3 point line and stops and pounds the ball for 10 seconds waiting for some long drawn out play to start.

It is horrible especially for a team like Iowa that plays well out of the break and secondary break but is far less effective when the defense has a chance to set up.

maybe he should try the lowering down from the top method

I think you meant to post this in the Thunderhead thread.

 

[Hawkeye_Pierce]

I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.

I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.

I keep reading about how much Carver sucks, a lack of commitment, etc., but that in no way explains how Iowa is over-matched athletically by mid-majors with even shittier facilities. The option of playing at a P5 school in a high profile conference should give Iowa an edge in recruiting over a lot of schools and yet here they are, with 4 low-level recruits without a P5 offer among them. That should never happen. I understand when it comes to 4 and 5 star recruits who are choosing between blue bloods but it seems like there is a tier below that where Iowa should have success. It should never come to the point where they're in recruiting battles with...no one. I understood it when the Criminal was at the helm. His offense was disgusting and no one in their right mind would want to play in it. But Iowa's style of play should appeal to just about any athlete - especially those that don't care much about defense.

There's something legitimately broken in terms of recruiting. I don't know what it is but I'm sure fielding one of the whitest teams in the country doesn't help matters. You'd be naive to think that it doesn't factor into the decision.

 

[douglasbader]

I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.

I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.

I keep reading about how much Carver sucks, a lack of commitment, etc., but that in no way explains how Iowa is over-matched athletically by mid-majors with even shittier facilities. The option of playing at a P5 school in a high profile conference should give Iowa an edge in recruiting over a lot of schools and yet here they are, with 4 low-level recruits without a P5 offer among them. That should never happen. I understand when it comes to 4 and 5 star recruits who are choosing between blue bloods but it seems like there is a tier below that where Iowa should have success. It should never come to the point where they're in recruiting battles with...no one. I understood it when the Criminal was at the helm. His offense was disgusting and no one in their right mind would want to play in it. But Iowa's style of play should appeal to just about any athlete - especially those that don't care much about defense.

There's something legitimately broken in terms of recruiting. I don't know what it is but I'm sure fielding one of the whitest teams in the country doesn't help matters. You'd be naive to think that it doesn't factor into the decision.

His last 6 recruits are black.

 

[Fletch]

I agree they made up some of the deficit because it was end of the game, but at least a part of that was having Toussaint able to play defense and attack.

Connor is just the worst play from behind point guard I have ever seen. He gets the ball off a rebound and instead of pushing it and putting pressure on the other team he consistently gets it up to about 5 feet from the 3 point line and stops and pounds the ball for 10 seconds waiting for some long drawn out play to start.

It is horrible especially for a team like Iowa that plays well out of the break and secondary break but is far less effective when the defense has a chance to set up.

maybe he should try the lowering down from the top method

I think you meant to post this in the Thunderhead thread.

 

[Hawkeye_Pierce]

I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.

I keep reading about how much Carver sucks, a lack of commitment, etc., but that in no way explains how Iowa is over-matched athletically by mid-majors with even shittier facilities. The option of playing at a P5 school in a high profile conference should give Iowa an edge in recruiting over a lot of schools and yet here they are, with 4 low-level recruits without a P5 offer among them. That should never happen. I understand when it comes to 4 and 5 star recruits who are choosing between blue bloods but it seems like there is a tier below that where Iowa should have success. It should never come to the point where they're in recruiting battles with...no one. I understood it when the Criminal was at the helm. His offense was disgusting and no one in their right mind would want to play in it. But Iowa's style of play should appeal to just about any athlete - especially those that don't care much about defense.

There's something legitimately broken in terms of recruiting. I don't know what it is but I'm sure fielding one of the whitest teams in the country doesn't help matters. You'd be naive to think that it doesn't factor into the decision.

His last 6 recruits are black.

I probably should have made the distinction but I'm referring to recruits that actually have legitimate options. I know from a local coach that this is absolutely a factor for some of his kids.

 

[douglasbader]

The race thing is the dumbest thing of all time

 

[MikeyJoe]

So uh how about Walter McCarty?

 

[Saul Berkley]

The issue is that Fran has over half the roster that is better suited for a slow down offense when he wants to run an uptempo high octane offense.

Turns out you can't do that with Connor, Garza, Nunge, Kriener, Pemsl, and Evelyn.

 

[Kerky]

We should also look at the journey to how Iowa got where they are.....

Late 70's / Early 80's - Lute Olson turns out to be a Hall of Fame level coach that can recruit. He moves on to better circumstances and becomes an NCAA Championship coach as well

Mid-80's / Late 80's - George Raveling is a bad coach but great recruiter because he pays for top players

Late-80's / Most of 90's - Dr. Tom is a good coach that does really well with Raveling's paid recruits. He rides that to being a pretty good recruiter himself initially until he gets sort of old and lazy and would rather be golfing and is forced out

Late 90's / Mid 00's - Alford is the hot name and recruiter. He makes some splashes but his shitty coaching and personality and other factors tank after a few years and he rides out of town to a mid-major

Late 00's - The Criminal is coach of the year but he is a disaster in every way. Shitty recruiter and even shittier coach that is obsessed with his old Butler job and wants to be back there. He flames out and never does anything relevant again

Late 00's / 10's - Fran is a older but damn good mid-major coach that runs a good program and has a style. He turns Iowa around quickly from the depths of Lick. He is a great at evaluating talent but shitty at closing on his targets. He misses out on multiple PG's that would have gotten him over the top. His personality is a negative to many and ultimately Iowa has hit a ceiling despite averaging roughly 21 wins per year.

If you look at this in long form, Iowa got pretty lucky with Lute and then Raveling got enough players to allow Dr. Tom to be successful for a lot of years. Alford was ultimately a miss, Lick was a disaster and Fran has been steady but unspectacular.

You forgot Ralph Miller and O'Connor from the 50's. There really is a bit of tradition for Iowa basketball. It's not just Lute and Ravelings recruits.

 

[BBK]

We should also look at the journey to how Iowa got where they are.....

Late 70's / Early 80's - Lute Olson turns out to be a Hall of Fame level coach that can recruit. He moves on to better circumstances and becomes an NCAA Championship coach as well

Mid-80's / Late 80's - George Raveling is a bad coach but great recruiter because he pays for top players

Late-80's / Most of 90's - Dr. Tom is a good coach that does really well with Raveling's paid recruits. He rides that to being a pretty good recruiter himself initially until he gets sort of old and lazy and would rather be golfing and is forced out

Late 90's / Mid 00's - Alford is the hot name and recruiter. He makes some splashes but his shitty coaching and personality and other factors tank after a few years and he rides out of town to a mid-major

Late 00's - The Criminal is coach of the year but he is a disaster in every way. Shitty recruiter and even shittier coach that is obsessed with his old Butler job and wants to be back there. He flames out and never does anything relevant again

Late 00's / 10's - Fran is a older but damn good mid-major coach that runs a good program and has a style. He turns Iowa around quickly from the depths of Lick. He is a great at evaluating talent but shitty at closing on his targets. He misses out on multiple PG's that would have gotten him over the top. His personality is a negative to many and ultimately Iowa has hit a ceiling despite averaging roughly 21 wins per year.

If you look at this in long form, Iowa got pretty lucky with Lute and then Raveling got enough players to allow Dr. Tom to be successful for a lot of years. Alford was ultimately a miss, Lick was a disaster and Fran has been steady but unspectacular.

You forgot Ralph Miller and O'Connor from the 50's. There really is a bit of tradition for Iowa basketball. It's not just Lute and Ravelings recruits.

We talking Murray Weir in here?

 

[kmurp]

I wasn’t aware that Raveling paid for players. Is this a well known thing?
Also, I haven’t lived in Iowa for many years but from what I am reading on HALO, the support for Iowa basketball is very poor these days. That’s a huge change from the Lute/Raveling days. Pre- ESPN and a statewide network was organized to show virtually every Iowa game. It was the highest rated TV show in the state, beating out the Cosby show. The field house rocked and it as well as Carver were sold out via season tickets.

 

[Mo T]

I wasn’t aware that Raveling paid for players. Is this a well known thing?

Well known, yes. Proven, no. Just like Ronnie Harmon's fumble and Jeffrey Epstein. We all know, we just can't prove it.

 

[nolookpass]

I wasn’t aware that Raveling paid for players. Is this a well known thing?

Well known, yes. Proven, no. Just like Ronnie Harmon's fumble and Jeffrey Epstein. We all know, we just can't prove it.

*Fumbles

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I wasn’t aware that Raveling paid for players. Is this a well known thing?
Also, I haven’t lived in Iowa for many years but from what I am reading on HALO, the support for Iowa basketball is very poor these days. That’s a huge change from the Lute/Raveling days. Pre- ESPN and a statewide network was organized to show virtually every Iowa game. It was the highest rated TV show in the state, beating out the Cosby show. The field house rocked and it as well as Carver were sold out via season tickets.

We sold out basketball season tickets as recently as my third senior year of college.

 

[KingJames]

The race thing is the dumbest thing of all time

Why is it the dumbest thing of all-time? I'm curious to know why you think it doesn't matter to high ranking black recruits that Iowa is in on. They have missed out on so many. What's your theory behind that? Because I think it's a valid argument to think that if it's down to Iowa and another school and one has 3 black kids and they other has 10, that it absolutely matters.

 

[douglasbader]

The race thing is the dumbest thing of all time

Why is it the dumbest thing of all-time? I'm curious to know why you think it doesn't matter to high ranking black recruits that Iowa is in on. They have missed out on so many. What's your theory behind that? Because I think it's a valid argument to think that if it's down to Iowa and another school and one has 3 black kids and they other has 10, that it absolutely matters.

Of course you believe this dumb shit.

My "theory behind that" is the high ranked kids have better options than Iowa.

There is no valid argument to Fran and black kids not choosing him because of race. None.

Oh, in case you haven't seen, the last 7 recruits now are black and from places like New York City, Chicago and Africa.

 

[HerkyHopeful]

How many of those guys is Iowa the best (or only) offer?

Hard to bring in a highly rated kid from CPS/twin cities/etc and expect a culture fit with a team full of Connors, Lukas, and Aidans.

This new influx of diversity should help ensure this is a non issue moving forward though.

 

[douglasbader]

How many of those guys is Iowa the best (or only) offer?

Hard to bring in a highly rated kid from CPS/twin cities/etc and expect a culture fit with a team full of Connors, Lukas, and Aidans.

This new influx of diversity should help ensure this is a non issue moving forward though.

You guys are just making shit up in your own head. There hasn't been a single recruit that has even hinted at anything like this.

Fran has missed out on highly rated black players because they have better options. They are choosing between places like Syracuse, Kansas, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State and other schools.

It isn't a shock that any of them didn't choose Iowa.

Fran just got a black guy originally from Africa that had the option to go to one of the blackest schools in the country and arguably a much better program at Cincinnati.

How do you explain that while still buying into this dumb theory?

 

[douglasbader]

Think of this line of logic.....

"Fran can't get black kids because we have too many white kids!!"

His last 7 recruits are black and from places like NYC and Chicago.

"Well, I meant highly rated black kids that have other options!"

Ok, well their other options are better than Iowa and not shocking they took them.

"It has to be because Iowa is too white, black kids with other options aren't going to come here!"

Well, this morning Fran got a black kid with other options including Cincinnati.

"I guess this new influx in diversity should help ensure this is a non issue going forward!"

Ok......

 

[StinkyMcFadden]

There was a recruit a couple months ago that tweeted the excited to receive an offer from Iowa thing. The pic he used was Connor, Baer and Garza celebrating (or some other cracker combo).

One of his friends immediately tweeted back, “that looks lit as fuck Lolol.” Or something like that.

 

[CamelTones]

So what's the story on Tyler Beard? Looks like a good prospect out of Chicago that played on the same AAU team as Ulis but hasn't set up any visits yet. Grades? Attitude? Wants to get paid but isn't good enough to get paid?

 

[HerkyHopeful]

Think of this line of logic.....

"Fran can't get black kids because we have too many white kids!!"

His last 7 recruits are black and from places like NYC and Chicago.

"Well, I meant highly rated black kids that have other options!"

Ok, well their other options are better than Iowa and not shocking they took them.

"It has to be because Iowa is too white, black kids with other options aren't going to come here!"

Well, this morning Fran got a black kid with other options including Cincinnati.

"I guess this new influx in diversity should help ensure this is a non issue going forward!"

Ok......

Great job combining several posters to push your narrative.

Keep you head buried in the sand.

 

[douglasbader]

So what's the story on Tyler Beard? Looks like a good prospect out of Chicago that played on the same AAU team as Ulis but hasn't set up any visits yet. Grades? Attitude? Wants to get paid but isn't good enough to get paid?

I'm guessing he is going to take a post grad year.

 

[douglasbader]

Think of this line of logic.....

"Fran can't get black kids because we have too many white kids!!"

His last 7 recruits are black and from places like NYC and Chicago.

"Well, I meant highly rated black kids that have other options!"

Ok, well their other options are better than Iowa and not shocking they took them.

"It has to be because Iowa is too white, black kids with other options aren't going to come here!"

Well, this morning Fran got a black kid with other options including Cincinnati.

"I guess this new influx in diversity should help ensure this is a non issue going forward!"

Ok......

Great job combining several posters to push your narrative.

Keep you head buried in the sand.

The idiots pushing the dumb narrative are yourself and the rest of them.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

Race does matter but not to the extent that some are making it out to be. Iowa has lost out on guys due to people’s perceptions of it being lily white. (It is and it does matter to some kids)

Not sure you can do much to change that other than just win with what you got and start to build the base of guys that will consider you.

 

[Fletch]

Of all the retarded conversations that Halo has had, this is one of them.

 

[Gushawk]

If I was a black kid from the urban United States with other comparable options, I’m relatively certain Fran and the Iowa program’s mojo wouldn’t do it for me. Fran is old and angry, the team is goofy and awkward.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

If I was a black kid from the urban United States with other comparable options, I’m relatively certain Fran and the Iowa program’s mojo wouldn’t do it for me. Fran is old and angry, the team is goofy and awkward.

Gus has the pulse of the 16-18 y/o black male demo.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

If I was a black kid from the urban United States with other comparable options, I’m relatively certain Fran and the Iowa program’s mojo wouldn’t do it for me. Fran is old and angry, the team is goofy and awkward.

Lol

 

[Berzerkenpas]

 

[Shpadoinkle]

If I were a young black man, I'd probably want to play for someone urban, young and hip, like John Calipari, Mike Kresfewesfafaki, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo or Bill Self.

 

[douglasbader]

If I were a young black man, I'd probably want to play for someone urban, young and hip, like John Calipari, Mike Kresfewesfafaki, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo or Bill Self.

Lol, exactly. Nothing says SWAG and urban like the almost exclusively old and often overweight white dorks that dominate the top levels of coaching.

 

[nolookpass]

If I were a young black man, I'd probably want to play for someone urban, young and hip, like John Calipari, Mike Kresfewesfafaki, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo or Bill Self.

don't the assistants generally do the bulk of the recruiting? I'm guessing all them dudes probably have at least one guy on their staff younger than 41 years old

 

[Shpadoinkle]

If I were a young black man, I'd probably want to play for someone urban, young and hip, like John Calipari, Mike Kresfewesfafaki, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo or Bill Self.

don't the assistants generally do the bulk of the recruiting? I'm guessing all them dudes probably have at least one guy on their staff younger than 41 years old

They could have my old, fat, white ass out there closing and do just fine.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

Are the coaches not taking them to the step show in Macbride on their official visits? If not, this is an egregious error.

 

[KingJames]

I don't think anyone here is calling Fran a racist or saying black kids don't like him. The point is that his recruiting efforts have landed him a bunch of cracker ass crackers. When recruits get on campus for their visits, I think seeing that hurts Fran's chances of landing the kid.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

I don't think anyone here is calling Fran a racist or saying black kids don't like him. The point is that his recruiting efforts have landed him a bunch of cracker ass crackers. When recruits get on campus for their visits, I think seeing that hurts Fran's chances of landing the kid.

Hence the step show. Problem solved.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

nm

 

[eclone]

I don't think anyone here is calling Fran a racist or saying black kids don't like him. The point is that his recruiting efforts have landed him a bunch of cracker ass crackers. When recruits get on campus for their visits, I think seeing that hurts Fran's chances of landing the kid.

I think more likely, it hurts them long before a kid gets on campus. By the time they're on campus, they've already watched the team play and know a bit of what they're getting into. I'm guessing players that would make that a point of issue, weed Iowa out long before they are seriously recruited. (and probably not much different no matter who the players are...some just won't give Iowa or ISU a look because of their perceptions of Iowa.)

 

[douglasbader]

I don't think anyone here is calling Fran a racist or saying black kids don't like him. The point is that his recruiting efforts have landed him a bunch of cracker ass crackers. When recruits get on campus for their visits, I think seeing that hurts Fran's chances of landing the kid.

Fran has landed a ton of black kids as well. His last 7 recruits are black. Guys like Tyler Cook and others have no problem signing with Iowa.

The white guys he has signed or transferred in are largely highly rated players like Wieskamp, Garza, Woodbury, Gesell, Uthoff, Patrick, etc...

All of this narrative is fucking dumb.

 

[AZmessDAWG]

It really isn’t. It’s a factor. Not bc of anything that Fran has done it’s just how Iowa is perceived.

And of course, if Iowa is a kids best offer, they’re more than likely going to sign.