**DePaul vs. Iowa - 11/11/19 - 7pm - FS1**

Shpadoinkle

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
Then you are pretty much the embodiment of "Iowa Fan".
 

CamelTones

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Also LOL at anyone that didn’t expect this with Connor the moment he committed. He’s a slow, unathletic pg that happens to be the coaches son. He was always going to be a lightning rod.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
Our slow unathletic bunch doesn't exactly value the basketball much either.
that was really pissing me off. You don’t have to be athletic to be strong with the ball and make crisp passes.
It was great seeing our guys panicking and wanting to get the ball out of their hands as fast as possible.
 

CamelTones

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
Then you are pretty much the embodiment of "Iowa Fan".
I disagree. Iowa fan wants Kirk fired and for the football team to go 12-0 every year. The majority of the time with Kirk, when they lose, it doesn’t matter how superior the other team is, Iowa still has a shot in the 4th quarter. (Yes there are clunkers like the Rose Bowl)

With Fran there are way too many games like last night where it’s basically over at the 10 minute mark of the 1st half. DePaul was throwing up alley oop reverse dunk attempts in the 1st half. They were openly mocking Iowa. Losing is fine, but at least compete. There were 8 games last year where they didn’t even show up. 3 other games (NW, Tennessee and @Minnesota) where they got down big and made a late comeback. That’s 1/3 of the schedule.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Fran's teams remind me of Nebrantska football trying to play in the Big Ten. They'll score points. That's it. That's the list.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.
 

Shpadoinkle

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
Then you are pretty much the embodiment of "Iowa Fan".
I disagree. Iowa fan wants Kirk fired and for the football team to go 12-0 every year. The majority of the time with Kirk, when they lose, it doesn’t matter how superior the other team is, Iowa still has a shot in the 4th quarter. (Yes there are clunkers like the Rose Bowl)

With Fran there are way too many games like last night where it’s basically over at the 10 minute mark of the 1st half. DePaul was throwing up alley oop reverse dunk attempts in the 1st half. They were openly mocking Iowa. Losing is fine, but at least compete. There were 8 games last year where they didn’t even show up. 3 other games (NW, Tennessee and @Minnesota) where they got down big and made a late comeback. That’s 1/3 of the schedule.
Don't even get me started on football Iowa Fan.

Basketball Iowa Fan wants to fire Fran 2 games into the season.

Last year they got rolled by a couple top 10 teams and a couple top 20 teams on the road, but also beat top 5 michigan a few other top 25 teams, made the tourney and almost made the sweet 16.

They lost almost all their leadership and scoring from last year. They looked like shit last night, but give them some time to find themselves for chrissake.
 

CamelTones

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.
Come the fuck on. People care.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Then you are pretty much the embodiment of "Iowa Fan".
I disagree. Iowa fan wants Kirk fired and for the football team to go 12-0 every year. The majority of the time with Kirk, when they lose, it doesn’t matter how superior the other team is, Iowa still has a shot in the 4th quarter. (Yes there are clunkers like the Rose Bowl)

With Fran there are way too many games like last night where it’s basically over at the 10 minute mark of the 1st half. DePaul was throwing up alley oop reverse dunk attempts in the 1st half. They were openly mocking Iowa. Losing is fine, but at least compete. There were 8 games last year where they didn’t even show up. 3 other games (NW, Tennessee and @Minnesota) where they got down big and made a late comeback. That’s 1/3 of the schedule.
Don't even get me started on football Iowa Fan.

Basketball Iowa Fan wants to fire Fran 2 games into the season.

Last year they got rolled by a couple top 10 teams and a couple top 20 teams on the road, but also beat top 5 michigan a few other top 25 teams, made the tourney and almost made the sweet 16.

They lost almost all their leadership and scoring from last year. They looked like shit last night, but give them some time to find themselves for chrissake.
This is fair. Last night was pretty embarrassing.
 

Shpadoinkle

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I disagree. Iowa fan wants Kirk fired and for the football team to go 12-0 every year. The majority of the time with Kirk, when they lose, it doesn’t matter how superior the other team is, Iowa still has a shot in the 4th quarter. (Yes there are clunkers like the Rose Bowl)

With Fran there are way too many games like last night where it’s basically over at the 10 minute mark of the 1st half. DePaul was throwing up alley oop reverse dunk attempts in the 1st half. They were openly mocking Iowa. Losing is fine, but at least compete. There were 8 games last year where they didn’t even show up. 3 other games (NW, Tennessee and @Minnesota) where they got down big and made a late comeback. That’s 1/3 of the schedule.
Don't even get me started on football Iowa Fan.

Basketball Iowa Fan wants to fire Fran 2 games into the season.

Last year they got rolled by a couple top 10 teams and a couple top 20 teams on the road, but also beat top 5 michigan a few other top 25 teams, made the tourney and almost made the sweet 16.

They lost almost all their leadership and scoring from last year. They looked like shit last night, but give them some time to find themselves for chrissake.
This is fair. Last night was pretty embarrassing.
Oh it fucking sucked.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.
Come the fuck on. People care.
There aren’t enough donors that care in the most important way.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.
Come the fuck on. People care.
The AD answers to the fans. there is zero donor pressure whatsoever. Until that happens (in any sport) there is little reason to make a move.

as pissy as all our fans seem about Kirk and Brian there are WAY more people that love them and would be pissed if we pushed them out.

until Hoops sees a big revenue drop off I just don’t see much happening. Frans buyout is totally manageable at any time.
 

CamelTones

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I am totally fine with moving on from Fran. I just don’t see another coach doing any better until there’s a completely renewed commitment to basketball at Iowa. And frankly not enough people care for that to happen.
Come the fuck on. People care.
There aren’t enough donors that care in the most important way.
Right now no. Make a couple runs in the tournament (win 2 games) and I guarantee the would care in the most important way.
 

Tugboat

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Jordan Bohannon bailed the team out of several jams last year. Sad knowing that he won’t likely return to 2018-2019 form again.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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CamelTones

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There aren’t enough donors that care in the most important way.
Right now no. Make a couple runs in the tournament (win 2 games) and I guarantee the would care in the most important way.
You are right but I think it is going to take some bigger changes to get to the point where they can make a run. Chicken and egg deal imtwo.
Nebrantska is the test case. They have invested a ton into their program with no return. It’s still about wins and losses.
 

Shpadoinkle

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Right now no. Make a couple runs in the tournament (win 2 games) and I guarantee the would care in the most important way.
You are right but I think it is going to take some bigger changes to get to the point where they can make a run. Chicken and egg deal imtwo.
Nebrantska is the test case. They have invested a ton into their program with no return yet. It’s still about wins and losses.
 

Berzerkenpas

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"fire fran" is moronic. but, it is a sign of where the program is that josh freaking ogundele now pretty much makes or breaks the 2020 class, and next season's frontcourt depth. he's slow and can't get off the floor too well, but he's a big strong kid with solid footwork and good instincts around the hoop -- a greater but lesser garza, if you will. get him, and ok, you've filled a need for next year with kriener gone, and now the class looks a little better (otherwise it's a decent backup pg, a shooting guard project who may well end up transferring after two years, and the murray twins).

If the 2021 class is another stinker, though, it's time to let him go.
 

Jimmie Dimmick

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Just read this whole thread. I’m gonna hit the hardware store for a nice length of rope. Hope the garage door opener can hold my weight.
 

AZmess

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The fundamental problem is that Fran, for the most part, isn’t appealing enough to land non-marginal athletic players. And having two of his kids on the roster and in the regular rotation doesn’t help the program’s appeal.
The problem isn’t having the McCaffery’s on the team. They’re scholarship-worthy. I know the nepotism freaks will disagree but it’s true.

The problem is he can’t recruit at a high enough level to play the way he wants to play. He could adjust his style of play to match what he can recruit but I don’t see that happening.
 

AZmess

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moss wasn't a flame out. He was a mid-level big ten type player who probably got tired of getting yanked at the end of close games all the time for Frans son
lol
 

Revolver

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I’ve noticed a lot of people who claim to hate “hot take culture” are pretty quick to say the Basketball team sucks two games into the season.
 

Revolver

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moss wasn't a flame out. He was a mid-level big ten type player who probably got tired of getting yanked at the end of close games all the time for Frans son
lol
Is Moss all that much better than CJ Fredrick, if at all? I will say there is only one thing I can name that Moss is/was better at than Wieskamp and it was turning the ball over.
 

Berzerkenpas

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moss wasn't a flame out. He was a mid-level big ten type player who probably got tired of getting yanked at the end of close games all the time for Frans son
lol
moss wasn't a flameout. unranked three stars don't flame out, because they were never on fire to begin with. moss was a project recruit, and he did what projects mostly do -- look really good for stretches, and look really shitty for stretches, and sometimes just be nearly invisible. If he takes a bunch of long 2s and plays sketchy defense for kansas, yep, it was a moss problem. if he is new moss who suddenly doesn't do dumb shit and defends well, it was a player development problem.
 

nolookpass

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Flame outs don't usually get 25 minutes of court time for Kansas
 

douglasbader

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It all sucks and it all is chicken/egg at this point.

On one hand, Iowa was pretty good last year and made it into the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament and was a shot away from the Sweet 16. They finished 6th in the Big Ten and had 23 wins.

What does that get Fran and the program? High profile "fans" are openly begging for the AD and Fran to be shit canned. Now regular fans and sane message board fans are just tired of watching Fran coached teams and want him gone. The arena is half full at best for a somewhat name non-conference opponent. Everyone cares enough to bitch and moan but not enough to show up.

Fran coached teams have averaged 21 wins per year the last 7 seasons. They finish an average of top half in the conference. He runs a clean program and his kids are model citizens for the most part. He is a relative bargain as the 10th highest paid coach in the conference.

Even with all that fans are just sick of him and want him out.

Fran isn't without fault and a lot of this can be put on him, but honestly at Iowa given everything an the level of support he has done everything you can realistically expect of him.
 

CamelTones

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You are right but I think it is going to take some bigger changes to get to the point where they can make a run. Chicken and egg deal imtwo.
Nebrantska is the test case. They have invested a ton into their program with no return yet. It’s still about wins and losses.
Right. I’m not talking about Hoiberg. That was the final piece. I’m talking more about facilities and actively trying to get people to attend their games which is what a lot of people think will fix Iowa basketball.
 

nolookpass

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moss wasn't a flame out. He was a mid-level big ten type player who probably got tired of getting yanked at the end of close games all the time for Frans son
lol
moss wasn't a flameout. unranked three stars don't flame out, because they were never on fire to begin with. moss was a project recruit, and he did what projects mostly do -- look really good for stretches, and look really shitty for stretches, and sometimes just be nearly invisible. If he takes a bunch of long 2s and plays sketchy defense for kansas, yep, it was a moss problem. if he is new moss who suddenly doesn't do dumb shit and defends well, it was a player development problem.
Sketchy defense? He was a better defender last year than McCaffrey or bohannon
 

Shpadoinkle

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If only someone had predicted that Moss's career at KU would be held against Fran. I mean, who could have seen that coming?

If he was riding the pine, "three year starter on our shitty squad can't even find minutes at KU as a senior".

If he plays well "pLayer deVelopEment at Iowa SUX!"
 

AZmess

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moss wasn't a flameout. unranked three stars don't flame out, because they were never on fire to begin with. moss was a project recruit, and he did what projects mostly do -- look really good for stretches, and look really shitty for stretches, and sometimes just be nearly invisible. If he takes a bunch of long 2s and plays sketchy defense for kansas, yep, it was a moss problem. if he is new moss who suddenly doesn't do dumb shit and defends well, it was a player development problem.
Sketchy defense? He was a better defender last year than McCaffrey or bohannon
Sure. But let’s not get off topic here. Your post was retarded.
 

Berzerkenpas

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If he plays well "pLayer deVelopEment at Iowa SUX!"
well, if he suddenly stops doing all the things that drove halo nuts after four years of development in this program, it doesn't appear to bode well for iowa's guard coaching.
 

AZmess

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If he plays well "pLayer deVelopEment at Iowa SUX!"
well, if he suddenly stops doing all the things that drove halo nuts after four years of development in this program, it doesn't appear to bode well for iowa's guard coaching.
It surely won’t have anything to do with playing with better players.
 
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Ferentz to his credit, reinvented himself (to a degree). He moved on from some of the coaches who had been with him from the start because something needed to change. And it helped. Fran needs some fresh (young) blood in the worst way. He had the opportunity this summer, and went with one of his buddies who was just here. Some of Iowa's defensive issues would solve themselves through recruiting just by elevating the quality of athlete. Quicker guards who can stay in front of people, and a big guy who protects the rim and can rebound. Far too often one DePaul guy beat four Iowa games for an offensive rebound last night.

My thoughts:
PG: Joe is a bad shooter and bit out of control, of course he's two games into his career. But damn he is fast and can drive the court, which opens up opportunities for other guys. I don't think he should be the guy just yet, but with some seasoning it should be this season at some point. Connor should still start, but he is a dumbass at times and dribbles into trouble far too often. The fact he isn't a scoring threat remains a huge issue in his ability to contribute opportunities to others. In an ideal world he wouldn't play more than 10 minutes or so but at this point he's the best option. Evelyn is out of control, he's so much like Moss and doesn't appear he can be trusted. Bohannon won't be playing for long, and likely will be predominantly off the ball next season. He doesn't look healthy.

Wings: Frederick and Wieskamp are the only hopes. CJ has some burst and looks the part. He'll develop nicely. Joe will need to adjust to being the man. Still tentative at times, which just won't work this year. The sooner he realizes it, the better.

Posts: Garza will continue having his hot and cold moments. Last night I think was also a product of no one else creating anything on offense. Garza can be a black hole, but when other players are humming on offense he is a skilled offensive threat. Defense remains rough. Nunge looks bad, but he should be able to do so much more. He looks worse than two years ago, I refuse to believe this is all he can do. Kriener is Kriener. Pemsl was more worried about being a tough guy than using his offensive skills. He would benefit by playing low post with a Nunge who can be a threat from 3, which makes Jack's improvement all the more important. Patrick is too weak, every bump and swipe he's losing the ball. His shot is shit. He needs time.

The Foster decision is certainly a big contributor to the doom and gloom from last night. I think the decision took a lot out of Fran. Let's see how they rebound. They've got a couple weeks before they play another tough team so there's a lot of time to sort things out.
 

Berzerkenpas

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how does playing with better players affect your decision to launch a long 2 rather than a 3?

certainly, playing with a better group has an effect on your game, but some of the old moss shit was just between the ears malfunctioning.
 

Shpadoinkle

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If he plays well "pLayer deVelopEment at Iowa SUX!"
well, if he suddenly stops doing all the things that drove halo nuts after four years of development in this program, it doesn't appear to bode well for iowa's guard coaching.
Yeah it's not like Iowa has ever had a 4th or 5th year guy play substantially better in his last year.
 

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It all sucks and it all is chicken/egg at this point.

On one hand, Iowa was pretty good last year and made it into the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament and was a shot away from the Sweet 16. They finished 6th in the Big Ten and had 23 wins.

What does that get Fran and the program? High profile "fans" are openly begging for the AD and Fran to be shit canned. Now regular fans and sane message board fans are just tired of watching Fran coached teams and want him gone. The arena is half full at best for a somewhat name non-conference opponent. Everyone cares enough to bitch and moan but not enough to show up.

Fran coached teams have averaged 21 wins per year the last 7 seasons. They finish an average of top half in the conference. He runs a clean program and his kids are model citizens for the most part. He is a relative bargain as the 10th highest paid coach in the conference.

Even with all that fans are just sick of him and want him out.

Fran isn't without fault and a lot of this can be put on him, but honestly at Iowa given everything an the level of support he has done everything you can realistically expect of him.
I actually agree with Camel that I'm fine with this as the the norm for Iowa basketball. Fran's main problem has been a bad number of WTF blowouts in the first 8 minutes.

But you also can't ignore the fan fatigue aspect. Recruiting likely won't ever improve. Fran seems unmotivated to shake up his coaching staff. You see the same problems with defense recurring year after year. None of these things make me think Fran needs to be fired. He shouldn't be. It's just why I say that I'd personally be fine if he was gone - yes, fully acknowledging that it might not actually get better with the next guy.
 

AZmess

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how does playing with better players affect your decision to launch a long 2 rather than a 3?

certainly, playing with a better group has an effect on your game, but some of the old moss shit was just between the ears malfunctioning.
That specifically? Nothing. The turnovers and such? Could quite possibly be reduced when you have better players playing around you.
 

douglasbader

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If Iowa really wanted to get serious with a coaching hire that would actually likely work, then go hire Chris Jans. He would take the job in a second and is 10x the coach that Fran is and is also going to be a much better recruiter.

He has baggage, but the upside is there.
 

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This team with Cook and a healthy Bohannon would be (by the end of the season at least) fap worthy. It's crazy how much we already miss them.

I think we're an NIT team this year. If we had a healthy or even a serviceable Bohannon I think we'd sneak into the tourney. 7th - 10th in the Big 10. Could be worse, but I'll likely spend the season turning down free tickets almost every game again
 
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