**DePaul vs. Iowa - 11/11/19 - 7pm - FS1**

Berzerkenpas

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The optics of playing Connor ahead of Toussaint are pretty shitty.

In terms of overall effectiveness, Toussaint gives you about what Gesell gave you as a freshman. Different strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I'd argue it's a wash. Give him the keys to the car and let him learn. Show that you're willing to give significant playing time to the athletic kid, and let your son sit.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
 
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can you imagine what the DePaul players were thinking and saying to each other when they saw the 5 Osmond Brothers announced as Iowas starting lineup?
Probably "what the hell is an Osmond Brother"
 

Berzerkenpas

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Even if it was 1981. Ray Tolbert and Isaiah Thomas.
 

Berzerkenpas

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
we don't want them hitting the weights. It will kill their quickness...
heaven forbid a slow, weak player becomes an ever so slightly slower, but much stronger, player.

it ain't like he has a bunch of vince carters and brent barrys out there
 

Tugboat

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
 

nolookpass

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Berzerkenpas

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CamelTones

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
 

FrodoTBaggin

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
Our slow unathletic bunch doesn't exactly value the basketball much either.
 

Gushawk

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The fundamental problem is that Fran, for the most part, isn’t appealing enough to land non-marginal athletic players. And having two of his kids on the roster and in the regular rotation doesn’t help the program’s appeal.
 

eclone

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we don't want them hitting the weights. It will kill their quickness...
heaven forbid a slow, weak player becomes an ever so slightly slower, but much stronger, player.

it ain't like he has a bunch of vince carters and brent barrys out there
was sarcasm. getting stronger doesn't hurt your quickness
Apparently unless you're Nunge. I really liked him as a freshman, but he looks like Lurch out there this year.
 

Revolver

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CJ Fredrick’s defense was one of the only silver linings last night. He has really active hands and does a good job of staying with his man. They need to make it a point to get him involved offensively early in the game. He’s one of the better players on the team and probably the second best two-way player.
 

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They've got some dudes who can jump out of the gym, wow. All the headband guys especially.
I hoped they were terrible at fundamentals because they were doing crazy things in warmups. To the point where our guys were watching them. Hawks got blitzed early and never recovered. That DePaul team seems pretty damn good.
When a team shoots like that for an entire game they will look good. They have talent but they won't shoot like that in a game again for the rest of the season.
Pretty common thing to read after an Iowa game
 

Revolver

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I hoped they were terrible at fundamentals because they were doing crazy things in warmups. To the point where our guys were watching them. Hawks got blitzed early and never recovered. That DePaul team seems pretty damn good.
When a team shoots like that for an entire game they will look good. They have talent but they won't shoot like that in a game again for the rest of the season.
Pretty common thing to read after an Iowa game
I hear what you are saying, but it wasn’t all attributed to “bad defense”. They were nailing tough, contested shots.
 
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I think we best adapt to Garza being doubled every time he gets the ball in the low post. He’s tough one on one but needs to pass out of those double teams a bit quicker.
 

hawkeyealum

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
And how can a big ten basketball school start five white guys in 2019. I bet there aren't many schools at any level who can do that
 

nolookpass

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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
And how can a big ten basketball school start five white guys in 2019. I bet there aren't many schools at any level who can do that
Weren't the first two or three guys off the bench last night also honkies?
 

hawkeyealum

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I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
And how can a big ten basketball school start five white guys in 2019. I bet there aren't many schools at any level who can do that
Weren't the first two or three guys off the bench last night also honkies?
Kreiner and Bohannon were first two subs. The next group was Pemsl, JoeT, Evelyn

So yes. 7 whites before 2.5 blacks came in
 
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I think we best adapt to Garza being doubled every time he gets the ball in the low post. He’s tough one on one but needs to pass out of those double teams a bit quicker.
This is a good point. He was forcing last night, Iowa should prove to be a fairly good shooting team, get it back and out.
 
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Depaul's shots weren't contested. not meaningfully. the issue is there's a psychological edge when garza or bohannon (those two especially) are guarding someone in that it's like shooting over a chair. yes the chair's proximity to you may vary but the chair can't jump and you know that. this allows players to get rolling and feel confident which translates to the 'hot shooting nights' that have become so common against Are hawks.

Bohannon should shut it down, sooner than later. he's not helping himself. he's not helping the team. Defensively he's an even bigger liability than he used to be. his offense is tentative. not the way to go out. any play-time he gets this year cuts into the development of toussaint and frederick. both seem promising.

I'm not as low on Connor as others. But Toussaint has a much higher ceiling. That said, Toussaint's shot is busted. he had some go in that first game but man he'll be lucky to crack 30% on the year imo. He has the potential to be a very effective big ten point guard.

Pmac should not shoot beyond 15 feet. he shoots like a girl. clearly momma taught the boys how to shoot. i gather it worked in high school where he could take his time and line it up with no pressure. it's not gonna work in d1 hoops. i think he can be affective overall but not as a 3 point shooter. not for a few years. he should take a redshirt. his game will be first and foremost at the rim but he lacks the strength to really be succesful at even that this year. the potential is clearly there though.

i also agree with the sentiment that having two mccaffreys (and eventually probably three) is being used against Fran on the recruiting trail and makes the mccaf's presence probably a net negative. They're legit D1 players but just not quite good enough to make it worth it.
 
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I think Fran is done after Patrick. How we look at his tenure could shift dramatically.
 
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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
He should have been recruiting that type of player 5-6 years ago
 
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I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
He should have been recruiting that type of player 5-6 years ago
the issue i think is that he took the 'get blacks' strategy with the failed Moss class. All those guys were flame outs. Williams, Wagner, Hutton, Fleming... Moss...

i think after that he took a different approach (less focus on athleticism, since it failed pretty spectacularly with that class). now with toussaint and perkins and i guess ulis we're going back the other direction with our backup recruits. but it's not clear this won't be a repeat of the '15 class.
 

nolookpass

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moss wasn't a flame out. He was a mid-level big ten type player who probably got tired of getting yanked at the end of close games all the time for Frans son
 

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They've got some dudes who can jump out of the gym, wow. All the headband guys especially.
I hoped they were terrible at fundamentals because they were doing crazy things in warmups. To the point where our guys were watching them. Hawks got blitzed early and never recovered. That DePaul team seems pretty damn good.
When a team shoots like that for an entire game they will look good. They have talent but they won't shoot like that in a game again for the rest of the season.
'Twas not their pre-game shooting brought trepidation to my thoughts
 

hawkeyealum

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I don't care what anyone here says. Connor fucking sucks.
 
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Moss is debatable. i'm of the opinion frederick is an upgrade. but agreed moss was not a total flameout.

the rest are not debatable.
 

OlePeep

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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
 
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The slow, weak and unathletic chickens have come home to roost. This isn't 1981.
I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
And how can a big ten basketball school start five white guys in 2019. I bet there aren't many schools at any level who can do that
I think our high school can do it.
 

6deuce

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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
So far I'm not seeing the comparison to Aaron White. White was much more ready to contribute as a freshman than Patrick appears to be. I hope I'm wrong.
 

Berzerkenpas

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patrick redshirts. connor the garbage 3 off the bench.

and monkeys will fly out of my butt.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
LOL. You could say that for everyone except Frederick.
 
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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
So far I'm not seeing the comparison to Aaron White. White was much more ready to contribute as a freshman than Patrick appears to be. I hope I'm wrong.
Patrick will be limited his entire college career. He's not one of those guys that can pack on 40lbs, he's always going to look like that.
 
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I think Fran is done after Patrick. How we look at his tenure could shift dramatically.
After last night, I'm hoping we don't have to wait that long. It's really hard to see this group contending for March situations anytime soon. Which would be unacceptable this far into Fran's tenure.
 

L. Wade Childress

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The optics of playing Connor ahead of Toussaint are pretty shitty.

In terms of overall effectiveness, Toussaint gives you about what Gesell gave you as a freshman. Different strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I'd argue it's a wash. Give him the keys to the car and let him learn. Show that you're willing to give significant playing time to the athletic kid, and let your son sit.
connor had the second best game on offense according to KenPom, and he played mostly vs their starters. Got Moore into foul trouble and looked much more assertive than last year.

Joe T looked good, but mostly against backups down 20. I think we all hope Toussaint is the answer because he has the strength and quickness but I have no idea why this turned into a McCaffery bashfest when there were a half dozen players that were far worse last night.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I’m with Dolph in wondering how Iowa manages to rarely sign quick, athletic guards. Even more frustrating when mid level teams Iowa plays seem to have 2-3 of these guys.
We've all been ripping on this next recruiting class but it appears that those are the types of players Fran is trying to recruit. Perkins, Ulis and Joe T are more in line with what everyone has been clamoring for (black). The question is, what kind of basketball players will they end up being and will fans be able to handle their higher turnover numbers?
Our slow unathletic bunch doesn't exactly value the basketball much either.
that was really pissing me off. You don’t have to be athletic to be strong with the ball and make crisp passes.
 

6deuce

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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
So far I'm not seeing the comparison to Aaron White. White was much more ready to contribute as a freshman than Patrick appears to be. I hope I'm wrong.
Patrick will be limited his entire college career. He's not one of those guys that can pack on 40lbs, he's always going to look like that.
I disagree. There was this faggot from BCLUW that I played against in HS who was a scrawny little twat. He bulked up quite a bit, but still loved/s the cock.
 

Shpadoinkle

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Nunge is a huge problem and I'll be super disappointed if he's still starting Friday.

Joe T probably isn't ready yet but the plan should be for him to get starter's minutes by the time the douche gets rolling.

Weiskamp can't go into a shell or the team is fucked.

Luka has to be able to read double teams quicker and get the ball back out.

CJ is a good player.

Connor didn't play that poorly, at least his mistakes were aggressive and not passive.

I have no real opinion on Patrick yet.

Seems that Evelyn is a Moss that can't shoot.

One of Pemsl/Kriener needs to step up and not be a black hole.
 

CamelTones

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It’s because with him the offense starts 35 feet from the basket and almost every pg in the Big Ten is athletically superior time him when Iowa’s on defense.

This isn’t an NCAA Tournament team right now. Let a guy like Joe T learn from his mistakes. Connor will still play. He just has an extremely low ceiling as a player.
 

Dr. Zaius

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This isn't a criticism of Patrick, but I'm surprised to see posters advocating more minutes for him. He has a lot of skill but looked completely, and I mean completely overmatched physically last night. His body is not ready. He was tossed around like a rag doll.
He is going to get eaten alive night in, night out in the big ten
 

MikeyJoe

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I don't think Fran deserves to be fired, and I admit the odds are pretty good that Iowa wouldn't be a better team with whomever Barta would hire to replace him at the helm. I get that.

But last night, watching that, I just couldn't help but think that I'm just tired of watching Fran coached teams.
 
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