*Omnibus 2020-2021 College Basketball Thread*

thrawn

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They're just giving him a better parking spot and the whole campus is his toilet starting immediately.
really nice toilets in the library basement, I would arrange my use around being there

same with the 3rd/4th (?) of the IMU
 

L. Wade Childress

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I am truly shocked that we have come this far over the past year and now we have people trying to cancel the tournament for other reasons.
 
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Hey Luka, I know you came back, sacrificed all year playing in front of no fans, tested daily and couldn’t have a normal senior year on campus like you deserved. After all that, you should also sit out the tournament for the second straight year.

Does he really think they would just rubber stamp this in a day or two?
 

WestMifflin

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Nigel Hayes tried to get UW to boycott their ACC/BIG game a few years ago for a similar reason.

Didn't go so well.
 

Dr. Zaius

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No, they shouldn’t get paid for playing sports in college. Allow them to play in the pros as early as they desire, but don’t pay them while in school.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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No, they shouldn’t get paid for playing sports in college. Allow them to play in the pros as early as they desire, but don’t pay them while in school.
They don’t want to be paid, per se. They want to have rights to monetize on youtube, instagram and twitch.
 

newsbreaker

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They don’t want to be paid, per se. They want to have rights to monetize on youtube, instagram and twitch.
Which I think is an entirely fair compromise. The alternative is to pay them, after which about half the programs are no longer financially viable.

They bring some value to the school's teams. I don't know how much, because while it's true we're all cheering for colors and laundry, we aren't putting 70,000 in Kinnick to watch Doug's dipshit intramural team in better uniforms.
 

Dr. Zaius

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They don’t want to be paid, per se. They want to have rights to monetize on youtube, instagram and twitch.
Yes, but they are under the University umbrella. University employees and students, for that matter, don’t get to monetize outside exploits in relation to their work for the University. It’s a slippery slope
 

thrawn

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People just crave attention with little regard for consequences
do people realize what “the NCAA needs the revenue” means? this isn’t $ that disappears into some leviathan, the tournament being canceled last year just killed tennis at St. Francis and Coastal Carolina track.

the non-revenue sports are whiter and richer than basketball and football so there’s that, but I wish people at least understood what the ncaa is and does.

and I favor athletes being able to monetize their likeness, even though I don’t think most would make much off it
 

demmert4

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do people realize what “the NCAA needs the revenue” means? this isn’t $ that disappears into some leviathan, the tournament being canceled last year just killed tennis at St. Francis and Coastal Carolina track.

the non-revenue sports are whiter and richer than basketball and football so there’s that, but I wish people at least understood what the ncaa is and does.

and I favor athletes being able to monetize their likeness, even though I don’t think most would make much off it
To me this is the right answer. Even Iowa and Michigan State had to can sports. The same people wanting athletes to be treated fair went after Iowa for cutting swimming and diving. It’s the outrage culture we live in.

But I also think allowing athletes to monetize their value at this time is ok. If some idiot wants to pay kids to advertise for them go for it. If a kid wants to hold a lacrosse camp in the summer go for it. The schools still wouldn’t be paying anyone and the athletes learn a lesson about overvaluing their worth.

At the end of the day Pancheros isn’t pulling the ads from Carver or Kinnick. Wellmark and Nationwide will still advertise with the university and guys like Gasser will still donate for the best seats and tailgate locations.
 

Thomas Wolsey

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Yes, but they are under the University umbrella. University employees and students, for that matter, don’t get to monetize outside exploits in relation to their work for the University. It’s a slippery slope
Can music students not perform at concerts in the summer?
 

FrodoTBaggin

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This is a can of worms that remains better unopened. The unintended list of consequences will be long.

I don't think folks here are looking bigger picture. Everyone here is thinking podunk Iowa athletes advertising for a car dealership.

What about Oregon and Phil Knight? Are they going to regulate how companies like Nike can offer advertising deals to colleges/students?

I know it's hyperbolic but the implications from these decisions could very well lead to death of college athletics as we know. We were likely already headed in that direction, this will hasten it, imo.

College athletes are "paid" with a free education (free everything pretty much) . I don't know why that can't be enough.
 

Alan Lomax

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This is a can of worms that remains better unopened. The unintended list of consequences will be long.

I don't think folks here are looking bigger picture. Everyone here is thinking podunk Iowa athletes advertising for a car dealership.

What about Oregon and Phil Knight? Are they going to regulate how companies like Nike can offer advertising deals to colleges/students?

I know it's hyperbolic but the implications from these decisions could very well lead to death of college athletics as we know. We were likely already headed in that direction, this will hasten it, imo.

College athletes are "paid" with a free education (free everything pretty much) . I don't know why that can't be enough.
Because they should get to own themselves. It’s not a difficult concept, and if making it true destroys college sports as we know it, they should be destroyed as we know them.
 

newsbreaker

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This is a can of worms that remains better unopened. The unintended list of consequences will be long.

I don't think folks here are looking bigger picture. Everyone here is thinking podunk Iowa athletes advertising for a car dealership.

What about Oregon and Phil Knight? Are they going to regulate how companies like Nike can offer advertising deals to colleges/students?

I know it's hyperbolic but the implications from these decisions could very well lead to death of college athletics as we know. We were likely already headed in that direction, this will hasten it, imo.

College athletes are "paid" with a free education (free everything pretty much) . I don't know why that can't be enough.
Of course it's the end of "as we know it." It's a fundamental change.

There are two paths for college athletics. This path, which might strike a sustainable balance, or the kids end up employees and it all goes away. Status quo has a short runway left, under any conditions.
 

Alan Lomax

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I guess I like college sports and don't want them ruined.
I like them too, but that college athletes don’t have control of their own likeness is fucking ridiculous. It’s made especially ridiculous with the dawning of NFTs, which young enterprising people are especially positioned to benefit from.
 

demmert4

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This is a can of worms that remains better unopened. The unintended list of consequences will be long.

I don't think folks here are looking bigger picture. Everyone here is thinking podunk Iowa athletes advertising for a car dealership.

What about Oregon and Phil Knight? Are they going to regulate how companies like Nike can offer advertising deals to colleges/students?

I know it's hyperbolic but the implications from these decisions could very well lead to death of college athletics as we know. We were likely already headed in that direction, this will hasten it, imo.

College athletes are "paid" with a free education (free everything pretty much) . I don't know why that can't be enough.
Nobody is pretending that large boosters won’t pay players to go to their school. We’re saying this is basically happening now at a disadvantage to schools that play be the rules. We are also saying it’s not sustainable to continue to deny your athletes their name, image and likeness.

I think the idea that this fundamentally changes where the top athletes are going to school is unfounded. As I said before, I could be way wrong. But what benefit to Nike is steering kids to Oregon? What Oregon athlete has ever made Nike money? Nike is better served continuing to fund grassroots and college teams to sell merchandise.

The thing I like about college sports is watching the Iowa Hawkeyes. I pay more attention when they are good. That doesn’t change because J Bo makes money on his podcast or twitch stream. Or Tyler Goodson does commercials for Big Grove. Or Catlin Clark runs a basketball camp in central Iowa all summer.
 

douglasbader

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This is a can of worms that remains better unopened. The unintended list of consequences will be long.

I don't think folks here are looking bigger picture. Everyone here is thinking podunk Iowa athletes advertising for a car dealership.

What about Oregon and Phil Knight? Are they going to regulate how companies like Nike can offer advertising deals to colleges/students?

I know it's hyperbolic but the implications from these decisions could very well lead to death of college athletics as we know. We were likely already headed in that direction, this will hasten it, imo.

College athletes are "paid" with a free education (free everything pretty much) . I don't know why that can't be enough.
We've been over this a thousand times with every angle being covered. All the arguments have been made and angles have been taken.

I think it has boiled itself down to a single viable scenario, and even that scenario is just a delay. My guess is they will have something that looks like this....

- Full scholarship
- Cut of licensing goes equally to every athlete
- Athletes can make money off of things like youtube or similar but any of the local wink wink come and advertise for a stack of cash or have an autograph session and a booster slides you $25k won't be allowed.

They obviously can't leave it as it is, and I don't think they can open it up as a free for all. Any middle ground is never going to be enough, so they will get to this something but not enough scenario that will keep things going but not stop the bitching.
 

douglasbader

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I like them too, but that college athletes don’t have control of their own likeness is fucking ridiculous. It’s made especially ridiculous with the dawning of NFTs, which young enterprising people are especially positioned to benefit from.
I don't think it is. In pretty much any scenario you aren't just free to go shop your likeness however you choose. My employer won't allow me to do a lot of things and still keep my job. School at any level won't let you just do anything you want. There are limits on anything that you are going to be a part of a collective and consequences for not following the system.

The system can be improved, but the thought that you just do whatever you want without any guidelines is silly.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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Nobody is pretending that large boosters won’t pay players to go to their school. We’re saying this is basically happening now at a disadvantage to schools that play be the rules. We are also saying it’s not sustainable to continue to deny your athletes their name, image and likeness.

I think the idea that this fundamentally changes where the top athletes are going to school is unfounded. As I said before, I could be way wrong. But what benefit to Nike is steering kids to Oregon? What Oregon athlete has ever made Nike money? Nike is better served continuing to fund grassroots and college teams to sell merchandise.

The thing I like about college sports is watching the Iowa Hawkeyes. I pay more attention when they are good. That doesn’t change because J Bo makes money on his podcast or twitch stream. Or Tyler Goodson does commercials for Big Grove. Or Catlin Clark runs a basketball camp in central Iowa all summer.
I think it's incredibly naive and shortsighted to think that nothing will really change because "it's already happening". There's constraints and "penalties" in place to have as even of a playing field as possible.

If a free education isn't enough of an incentive to sacrifice your likeness for 4 years then go a different route. Scholarship players are being compensated, they're not slaves.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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We've been over this a thousand times with every angle being covered. All the arguments have been made and angles have been taken.

I think it has boiled itself down to a single viable scenario, and even that scenario is just a delay. My guess is they will have something that looks like this....

- Full scholarship
- Cut of licensing goes equally to every athlete
- Athletes can make money off of things like youtube or similar but any of the local wink wink come and advertise for a stack of cash or have an autograph session and a booster slides you $25k won't be allowed.

They obviously can't leave it as it is, and I don't think they can open it up as a free for all. Any middle ground is never going to be enough, so they will get to this something but not enough scenario that will keep things going but not stop the bitching.
Good post, maybe they'll be able to make it work but I doubt it. Give them an inch and they'll want a mile.
 

demmert4

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I think it's incredibly naive and shortsighted to think that nothing will really change because "it's already happening". There's constraints and "penalties" in place to have as even of a playing field as possible.

If a free education isn't enough of an incentive to sacrifice your likeness for 4 years then go a different route. Scholarship players are being compensated, they're not slaves.
This is the part that gets dumb. You’re throwing in things I’ve never said. Where did I say a scholarship wasn’t an incentive? Where did I say they were slaves? Give me a break.

You can say I’m naive, I’m cool with that. I think you’re being purposely ignorant on how corporations work. Business aren’t going to blow through their ad budgets to pay kids to play college sports. If a boosters wants to pay kids,he’s going to do it anyway. Like Doug said, there will probably be safeguards and restrictions built in to this and it won’t be a free for all.

But you’ve yet to tell me why the athletes shouldn’t be able to monetize a podcast, a twitch stream or start a business if the market is there for it. You’ve yet to explain the harm in running a camp for kids. These are common sense solutions that allow the money to keep following to the universities and every other entity that profits of college sports without having to deal with Title IX situations and giving the athletes a chance to understand their actual value (most will have little to none).

It you want to discuss specifics and details I’m cool with that. If you want to throw out straw man arguments I’ll just politely bow out of this thread.
 

douglasbader

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Good post, maybe they'll be able to make it work but I doubt it. Give them an inch and they'll want a mile.
We have middle-aged educated adults with families and responsibility that can barely figure out how to properly manage their time and finances and constantly fuck up their taxes.

Now imagine you have uneducated 18-22 year olds that have a full class load and athletic responsibilities trying to prioritize their time devoted to their "brand" and name/likeness deals. Throw in how many of them won't understand how to incorporate themselves or file the proper taxes or make sure they withhold the proper amount or report cash income so they don't get a friendly visit from the IRS.

I'm sure a lot can figure it out, but most won't. The only way this even remotely works is that the NCAA can come up with something where every athlete gets an even cut that is significant enough to shut 99% of them up for at least a while until they can kick the can down the road.
 

FrodoTBaggin

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This is the part that gets dumb. You’re throwing in things I’ve never said. Where did I say a scholarship wasn’t an incentive? Where did I say they were slaves? Give me a break.

You can say I’m naive, I’m cool with that. I think you’re being purposely ignorant on how corporations work. Business aren’t going to blow through their ad budgets to pay kids to play college sports. If a boosters wants to pay kids,he’s going to do it anyway. Like Doug said, there will probably be safeguards and restrictions built in to this and it won’t be a free for all.

But you’ve yet to tell me why the athletes shouldn’t be able to monetize a podcast, a twitch stream or start a business if the market is there for it. You’ve yet to explain the harm in running a camp for kids. These are common sense solutions that allow the money to keep following to the universities and every other entity that profits of college sports without having to deal with Title IX situations and giving the athletes a chance to understand their actual value (most will have little to none).

It you want to discuss specifics and details I’m cool with that. If you want to throw out straw man arguments I’ll just politely bow out of this thread.
I didn't say you said those things, didn't even imply it. I said them, that was my opinion. But go ahead and be super sensitive.
 

Alan Lomax

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I don't think it is. In pretty much any scenario you aren't just free to go shop your likeness however you choose. My employer won't allow me to do a lot of things and still keep my job. School at any level won't let you just do anything you want. There are limits on anything that you are going to be a part of a collective and consequences for not following the system.

The system can be improved, but the thought that you just do whatever you want without any guidelines is silly.
I agree with this, and didn’t mean to imply differently. I think the current limits are ridiculous.
 

demmert4

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I didn't say you said those things, didn't even imply it. I said them, that was my opinion. But go ahead and be super sensitive.
Not being sensitive all. You quoted my post which made me think you were attributing the slaves and scholarship comments to my post. My bad if that’s not what was intended
 

douglasbader

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I'm trying to be somewhat realistic about this as well and cut the bullshit.

Do I think there are college athletes that could figure this out and how to run their "brand" and twitch streams and keep a full class load and dedicate themselves to their sport while making a ton of money? Of course.

I also know that for every Bohannon or Zion or Cade Cunningham there are 9 other morons that won't be able to do it and will create far more problems and further the inequity. You can say that might be a lot like our current economic system in this country and I would agree, but get prepared for so many side issues that you weren't expecting. Jealousy among teammates, motivation issues, legit legal issues,
 

demmert4

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We have middle-aged educated adults with families and responsibility that can barely figure out how to properly manage their time and finances and constantly fuck up their taxes.

Now imagine you have uneducated 18-22 year olds that have a full class load and athletic responsibilities trying to prioritize their time devoted to their "brand" and name/likeness deals. Throw in how many of them won't understand how to incorporate themselves or file the proper taxes or make sure they withhold the proper amount or report cash income so they don't get a friendly visit from the IRS.

I'm sure a lot can figure it out, but most won't. The only way this even remotely works is that the NCAA can come up with something where every athlete gets an even cut that is significant enough to shut 99% of them up for at least a while until they can kick the can down the road.
Are 18-22 year olds making money off Instagram, YouTube or twitch having a tough time with IRS audit or not paying their taxes?

I’m not trying to come off as some woke bro who thinks these athletes are totally exploited. I think J Bo has been really annoying with his social media usage this year and you couldn’t pay me to listen to his podcast. I’m tired of Bilas talking about this shit all the time but also tired of Dakich and Goetlib going the other direction. This isn’t going away and the NCAA needs to come up with plan to address it. Doug, your plan in the previous post was pretty reasonable. Doing something like that would get rid of the bitching and allow for the games to just be about the fucking games again.
 

MikeyJoe

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Yes, but they are under the University umbrella. University employees and students, for that matter, don’t get to monetize outside exploits in relation to their work for the University. It’s a slippery slope
Nobody tells music students that they can't play in paid gigs, tells drama students they're not allowed to get paid for bit roles while they're in school, etc.

I said the other day that I don't think athletes should be able to monetize direct university tie ins - Iowa still owns the rights to the Tiger Hawk, for example. Bohannon couldn't appear in a commercial wearing his jersey in my scenario. But the current limits are just too strict.
 

MikeyJoe

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Are 18-22 year olds making money off Instagram, YouTube or twitch having a tough time with IRS audit or not paying their taxes?

I’m not trying to come off as some woke bro who thinks these athletes are totally exploited. I think J Bo has been really annoying with his social media usage this year and you couldn’t pay me to listen to his podcast. I’m tired of Bilas talking about this shit all the time but also tired of Dakich and Goetlib going the other direction. This isn’t going away and the NCAA needs to come up with plan to address it. Doug, your plan in the previous post was pretty reasonable. Doing something like that would get rid of the bitching and allow for the games to just be about the fucking games again.
I also think it would be a huge wakeup call to the "I'M BEING EXPLOITED" crowd. The vast majority of them would maybe be able to scrounge up a couple thousand in side income, but they're not being oppressed from raking in hundreds of thousands like some of them seem to think they are.
 

douglasbader

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Are 18-22 year olds making money off Instagram, YouTube or twitch having a tough time with IRS audit or not paying their taxes?

I’m not trying to come off as some woke bro who thinks these athletes are totally exploited. I think J Bo has been really annoying with his social media usage this year and you couldn’t pay me to listen to his podcast. I’m tired of Bilas talking about this shit all the time but also tired of Dakich and Goetlib going the other direction. This isn’t going away and the NCAA needs to come up with plan to address it. Doug, your plan in the previous post was pretty reasonable. Doing something like that would get rid of the bitching and allow for the games to just be about the fucking games again.
I don't know if they are. What I do know is that any 18-22 year olds making money off Instagram, YouTube or twitch don't have a full class load. They don't have a full athletic commitment to keep up with.

Those people wake up and play video games or make some stupid tik tok challenge videos or whatever dumb shit makes them money and they largely do it whenever and however they want. They can play COD or Fortnite until 4am and then sleep until noon.

I hate to sound like an old man, but imagine where priorities are going to lie when you are having a mediocre season and coach is mad at you and life is hard but you can jump on a twitch stream and get your ass licked by everyone and get some $$ as well. It won't take long for more than a few guys to make the choice to abandon the thing that is making them feel bad and choose the sugar high.
 

douglasbader

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In the end this has the potential to be devastating for thousands and thousands of mostly minority kids that are getting a free education and changing the course of their own lives, families and communities for the better.

If they can't figure this out and college sports goes belly up or it is left to the Power 5 only, you have countless young people that will be left out in the cold. There are 65 or whatever Power 5 schools, but there are roughly 300+ other Division 1 programs that get a roster of 13 players education and opportunity that they would never get otherwise.

That seems over the top, but there is a less than zero chance if they can't figure it out.
 

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I'm ready for it to pass just so I can see the next outrage. There have to be some rules in place. Imagine if someone like Beathard would have done an ad supporting Trump sponsored by the Iowa Republican Party. At some point, a college athlete somewhere is going to do an ad for a company whose owner gets in trouble for something like sexual assault and they're going to have to live with the consequences of being told the associate with people like that for money.
 

douglasbader

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I also think it would be a huge wakeup call to the "I'M BEING EXPLOITED" crowd. The vast majority of them would maybe be able to scrounge up a couple thousand in side income, but they're not being oppressed from raking in hundreds of thousands like some of them seem to think they are.
I don't think it will wake them up at all. They will just move the goalposts again and blame someone or something else if it doesn't work out.

Can't wait for the inevitable racism or bias charges that will come out. Should be a wonderful thing for a ever devolving TrumpTard state like Iowa that is already having issues, or a backwards race bait song loving Texas that will reward good ol' boys over angry blacks.

If you think guys like James Daniles and Jaleel Johnson are pissy now, wait until they figure out that Josey Jewell and Max White will get more money as hometown Iowa white bread crackers than they would get as more urban out of state players.

Wait until you get a Devyn Marble / Aaron White / Adam Woodbury / Mike Gesell scenario where the lovable red heads and local guys are making more money while the guy from the Detroit area isn't despite being as good or better.

Down in Texas the Shipley/McCoy brothers and Sam Ehlinger rake money while scary blacks that won't stay out on the field for minstrel songs get shunned by big donors.
 

demmert4

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I don't know if they are. What I do know is that any 18-22 year olds making money off Instagram, YouTube or twitch don't have a full class load. They don't have a full athletic commitment to keep up with.

Those people wake up and play video games or make some stupid tik tok challenge videos or whatever dumb shit makes them money and they largely do it whenever and however they want. They can play COD or Fortnite until 4am and then sleep until noon.

I hate to sound like an old man, but imagine where priorities are going to lie when you are having a mediocre season and coach is mad at you and life is hard but you can jump on a twitch stream and get your ass licked by everyone and get some $$ as well. It won't take long for more than a few guys to make the choice to abandon the thing that is making them feel bad and choose the sugar high.
Fair opinion. I would imagine coaches aren’t going to like potential Myers Leonard situations during the season as well.
 

L. Wade Childress

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Because they should get to own themselves. It’s not a difficult concept, and if making it true destroys college sports as we know it, they should be destroyed as we know them.
that’s incredibly stupid. But evidently you don’t like black kids getting an education.
 

L. Wade Childress

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I think it's incredibly naive and shortsighted to think that nothing will really change because "it's already happening". There's constraints and "penalties" in place to have as even of a playing field as possible.

If a free education isn't enough of an incentive to sacrifice your likeness for 4 years then go a different route. Scholarship players are being compensated, they're not slaves.
notice how the 5* recruits aren’t the ones complaining?
 

Hawk&Balls

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I like them too, but that college athletes don’t have control of their own likeness is fucking ridiculous. It’s made especially ridiculous with the dawning of NFTs, which young enterprising people are especially positioned to benefit from.
No one is forcing them to go to college and play college basketball. If they want control of their own likeness, go elsewhere.
 
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I also think it would be a huge wakeup call to the "I'M BEING EXPLOITED" crowd. The vast majority of them would maybe be able to scrounge up a couple thousand in side income, but they're not being oppressed from raking in hundreds of thousands like some of them seem to think they are.
I think you overestimate their ability for self reflection. It won't be a wake up call, it'll be a call to arms, I can see Bohannon asking why can't he use the tigerhawk, the athletes are the reason it has value in the first place.
 
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