Rutgers @ Iowa Basketball Thread ~ 2/10/21 ~ 6:30pm ~ BTN

MikeyJoe

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Part of Joe’s problem is that he knows his minutes are limited so he is pushing every second he’s out there. He can’t afford to let the game come to him. Trying to do too much leads to fucking up which leads to getting yanked. A tale as old as time.
This seems made up. How could you possibly differentiate watching your TV between a guy who's pressing because he knows his minutes are limited and a guy who makes mistakes because this is how he plays basketball?

I could just as easily say something dumb like "Connor's a way better shooter than he's shown, he just feels a lot of pressure to make 3s when Garza kicks out from the post."
 

MikeyJoe

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newsflash coach, you dont get better playing 2-4 minutes. he played very well vs MSU and got 4 minutes next game.
Iowa fans want to bench Connor or Jordan as soon as they have a bad 4 minute stretch. Joe T has played one really good game in the current calendar year and fans wonder why he doesn't play more.
 

The Dad

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This seems made up. How could you possibly differentiate watching your TV between a guy who's pressing because he knows his minutes are limited and a guy who makes mistakes because this is how he plays basketball?

I could just as easily say something dumb like "Connor's a way better shooter than he's shown, he just feels a lot of pressure to make 3s when Garza kicks out from the post."
This is why you can’t talk sports with fucking nerds.
 

The Dad

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I was thinking the same thing about morons, fwiw.
You’re right. Competition occurs in an emotional vacuum and all observations should be made accordingly.
 

The Dad

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You arguing that an athlete pressing and trying to do too much “seems made up” shows you have little experience with actual competition.
 

AZmess

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newsflash coach, you dont get better playing 2-4 minutes. he played very well vs MSU and got 4 minutes next game.
You get better in practice every day and earn your PT there.
 

The Dad

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He only sucks because the coach makes him nervous is an argument you make for your kid, not a Big 10 player.
I’m not blaming the coach, I’m blaming him.

Sports psychologists aren’t real. Seem made up.
 

The Dad

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It’s a bullshit excuse. If you can’t do your job bc you’re trying to do more than you’re asked to do, it’s a one way ticket to the bench.
Exactly, and it should be. But it is certainly fucking real and happens all the time, right coach?
 

AZmess

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You arguing that an athlete pressing and trying to do too much “seems made up” shows you have little experience with actual competition.
And every single time, how has that worked out for the player?
 

MikeyJoe

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You arguing that an athlete pressing and trying to do too much “seems made up” shows you have little experience with actual competition.
Of course it's possible. Made up doesn't mean that psychology doesn't matter, I'm talking about you invoking it in this particular conversation. The point is that you have no way of knowing if it's true, you're predetermining it to explain away bad play because you've already concluded something about the player.

The other point is that ultimately, like @Shpadoinkle said above, it doesn't even really matter. If the guy is stupid enough to play badly because he's trying to force something to happen, why would you want to give him more minutes?
 

The Dad

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Of course it's possible. Made up doesn't mean that psychology doesn't matter, I'm talking about you invoking it in this particular conversation. The point is that you have no way of knowing if it's true, you're predetermining it to explain away bad play because you've already concluded something about the player.

The other point is that ultimately, like @Shpadoinkle said above, it doesn't even really matter. If the guy is stupid enough to play badly because he's trying to force something to happen, why would you want to give him more minutes?
Where have I argued that he needs more minutes? I simply pointed out what is happening and that it’s not uncommon.
 

MikeyJoe

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Where have I argued that he needs more minutes? I simply pointed out what is happening and that it’s not uncommon.
That's my point. No, you haven't. You've come up with a possible explanation to counter the fact that reality is different from your opinion.
 

The Dad

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You’re getting lumped in with NLP. Let that sink in.
Because people can’t read!!!

I loved when he said Ivan belonged to the Soviet “union” earlier.
 

AZmess

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The Dad

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But before I go, your comment that a player pressing and trying to do too much “seems made up” is one of the dumbest fucking sports takes ever expressed here.
 

MikeyJoe

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But before I go, your comment that a player pressing and trying to do too much “seems made up” is one of the dumbest fucking sports takes ever expressed here.
To reiterate:

This seems made up. How could you possibly differentiate watching your TV between a guy who's pressing because he knows his minutes are limited and a guy who makes mistakes because this is how he plays basketball?
Of course it's possible. Made up doesn't mean that psychology doesn't matter, I'm talking about you invoking it in this particular conversation. The point is that you have no way of knowing if it's true, you're predetermining it to explain away bad play because you've already concluded something about the player.
 

Revolver

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Keegan Murray was getting less minutes than I thought he should be at the beginning of the season. He gradually got more minutes as the season went on and earned more trust from the staff by not making careless mistakes and producing while he was in. This isn’t that hard to figure out.
 

nolookpass

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You’re getting lumped in with NLP. Let that sink in.
you get lumped in with Mugsy Bogues
Keegan Murray was getting less minutes than I thought he should be at the beginning of the season. He gradually got more minutes as the season went on and earned more trust from the staff by not making careless mistakes and producing while he was in. This isn’t that hard to figure out.
that explains Touissant playing well vs MSU and getting 4 minutes next time out.

and again, starters can make careless mistakes on D for years and its NBD.
 

The Dad

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To reiterate:
Because Michael, I have played and coached enough basketball to recognize it. You don’t get scholarships to division I programs without being able to perform the most basic basketball actions without fucking it up repeatedly. There is mental and emotional dysfunction on full display with Joe.

 
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you get lumped in with Mugsy Bogues

that explains Touissant playing well vs MSU and getting 4 minutes next time out.

and again, starters can make careless mistakes on D for years and its NBD.
That is a valid point, I wish Fran would hold players accountable for lapses in defense like he does turnovers. That's not really a defense of Toussaint though.
 

AZmess

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I tower over muggsy bogues.
 
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Isn’t the most likely scenario here that a kid that was a borderline high major recruit looked decent last year in extended minutes with no other options and is playing like a borderline high major recruit in his second year?

I think Doug mentioned Clemons somewhere in this thread and that’s a good point. Joe doesn’t deserve to be on the floor right now based on his play and the ability of some others on the team. That’s doesn’t mean he can’t be a contributor in the next couple years. I’m with Mikey, there’s nothing in the stats or “eye test” that says he should get more minutes right now.
 

Greg Obrecht

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you get lumped in with Mugsy Bogues

that explains Touissant playing well vs MSU and getting 4 minutes next time out.

and again, starters can make careless mistakes on D for years and its NBD.
Honestly, man, Joe T isn’t a good player. He’s barely mediocre. Maybe he can work on the advanced technique of simultaneously dribbling/moving his feet, without falling down, during the off season. That shit really impresses coaches and NBA scouts.
 

nolookpass

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Honestly, man, Joe T isn’t a good player. He’s barely mediocre. Maybe he can work on the advanced technique of simultaneously dribbling/moving his feet, without falling down, during the off season. That shit really impresses coaches and NBA scouts.
Greg, love ya man. But you dont excel in NYC hs ball being mediocre
 

The Dad

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For the record, I’m not arguing that Joe should get more minutes right now. I’m saying he’s trying to do way too much when he’s out there and shooting himself in the foot.

I would love for him to get more minutes in the future if he is able to relax and accept his role. He has potential to be more than fucking capable.
 
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