Omnibus Rutgers Basketball Thread

[Berzerkenpas]

Fran gives great hype and does good press conference. His players love him, and with the exception of the (alleged) McCabe-White meltdown, they've loved playing together and talk about the "family" culture that Fran creates. Those are the things he does well.

He's an ok recruiter, an ok bench coach, and ok at player development. He's hard to dislike because he's not a prick like Alford or a weirdo like The Criminal. But he's not in the top half of Big Ten coaches.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

His teams are pretty good offensively.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

His teams are pretty good offensively.

Due to some key players making big leaps (and Marble, White, Uthoff, and Jok look like Fran's player-development outliers, offensively), or due to him being a good offensive coach?

On one hand, his teams do score a lot. On the other, they often have droughts, and have trouble scoring unless the star player is "on" (which could be said for a lot of teams, sure, but how often did we see sets of "throw it to Dev/Aaron/Jarrod/Pete and see what happens" or "oh shit no one can score so somebody do something"?)

Adjusted Offense

2012: 39th
2013: 58th
2014: 5th
2015: 30th
2016: 25th
2017: 43rd
2018: 52nd


One outstanding year, two good-ish years, and -- if you're in the Big Ten and you're rep is an "offense" guy -- four just ok years. A Power Five coach who really is an offensive guru had better consistently be in the top 25 in adjusted offense, year in and year out. Otherwise, he's just ok.

I think Fran's rep as an offensive coach comes more from the contrast between his teams' scoring and their defensive inadequacies than from the quality and efficiency of what actually happens on the floor.

 

[douglasbader]

I think Fran is going to have a nice bounce back year next year. I hope all of this vitriol will light a fire under his ass.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

not vitriol here, doug.

a bounceback would be something like 35th or 40th in Ken Pom on offense, and somewhere between 40-60 overall. He's demonstrated that's about his "good" level.

I'm not contending he should be canned -- just that he's an average Power Five conference coach, or about where Iowa's "natural level" probably is, when you take away Miller and Olson, and the years when Ravelling's cash fueled Davis's teams.

 

[Hawkstrat]

I don't think external criticism does anything but cement the dumb things he does. I like Fran for the most part, but he's more likely to start playing Uhl than shorten the rotation.

 

[Billy Butters]

I don't think external criticism does anything but cement the dumb things he does. I like Fran for the most part, but he's more likely to start playing Uhl than shorten the rotation.

The game after he accidently shortened the bench and got results he goes full retard. I'm with most everybody else and want to see what he can do next year with Connor and Weiskamp but he's not making his job any easier not developing the players that should be in the rotation next year.

 

[RiotFan]

At a school with the history, resources, and recruiting base of the University of Iowa, they should not be only making the tournament once every few years. At minimum making it in 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 years is a realistic expectation (expectations!) for this program.

I don't think Fran is going to get it done there. He's had what, eight years? He's had more than enough time to recruit and develop his own players, and wash off the stink from the The Criminal era.

Jon Miller and Kakert say he's exceeded their (clearly very low) expectations every year. This is the first step back.

Ok.

 

[Will McCoy]

What would you all say that Fran is really good at as a coach?

Hyperbole

 

[hawkeyealum]

I don't think external criticism does anything but cement the dumb things he does. I like Fran for the most part, but he's more likely to start playing Uhl than shorten the rotation.

The game after he accidently shortened the bench and got results he goes full retard. I'm with most everybody else and want to see what he can do next year with Connor and Weiskamp but he's not making his job any easier not developing the players that should be in the rotation next year.

If we are going to suck I wish he would just play guys in the one, maybe two positions they are suited for. For several of those guys that would be the bench but for a guy like Nunge if hes going to be a stretch 4 let him play 85% of his minutes as stretch four and really learn it.

 

[Tugboat]

At a school with the history, resources, and recruiting base of the University of Iowa, they should not be only making the tournament once every few years. At minimum making it in 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 years is a realistic expectation (expectations!) for this program.

I don't think Fran is going to get it done there. He's had what, eight years? He's had more than enough time to recruit and develop his own players, and wash off the stink from the The Criminal era.

Jon Miller and Kakert say he's exceeded their (clearly very low) expectations every year. This is the first step back.

Ok.

Unfortunately I don’t see this ending well for Fran. He won’t/can’t recruit a PG due to his kid taking that spot.

HaLo optimists see Wieskamp as the savior. I’m sure he is good but as a Freshmen he won’t be able to do enough and Iowa won’t sniff the tourney.

Sadly in year 10 we’ll be keeping our fingers crossed that Iowa gets a tourney bid.

 

[hawkeyealum]

Joe will be an upgrade over our current SG but absent a guard that can penetrate past the three point line I don't see how next year improves. Its not like Connor can do that either.

 

[Orestes]

At a school with the history, resources, and recruiting base of the University of Iowa, they should not be only making the tournament once every few years. At minimum making it in 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 years is a realistic expectation (expectations!) for this program.

I don't think Fran is going to get it done there. He's had what, eight years? He's had more than enough time to recruit and develop his own players, and wash off the stink from the The Criminal era.

Jon Miller and Kakert say he's exceeded their (clearly very low) expectations every year. This is the first step back.

Ok.

Unfortunately I don’t see this ending well for Fran. He won’t/can’t recruit a PG due to his kid taking that spot.

HaLo optimists see Wieskamp as the savior. I’m sure he is good but as a Freshmen he won’t be able to do enough and Iowa won’t sniff the tourney.

Sadly in year 10 we’ll be keeping our fingers crossed that Iowa gets a tourney bid.

But doesn't fall into some logic-eluding meltdown.

I have got no faith in Fran right now. And yet I don't want him fired. But I don't really think we've seen anything consistently from him or his teams to make it reasonable to think next year will somehow be better.

 

[RiotFan]

At a school with the history, resources, and recruiting base of the University of Iowa, they should not be only making the tournament once every few years. At minimum making it in 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 years is a realistic expectation (expectations!) for this program.

I don't think Fran is going to get it done there. He's had what, eight years? He's had more than enough time to recruit and develop his own players, and wash off the stink from the The Criminal era.

Jon Miller and Kakert say he's exceeded their (clearly very low) expectations every year. This is the first step back.

Ok.

Unfortunately I don’t see this ending well for Fran. He won’t/can’t recruit a PG due to his kid taking that spot.

HaLo optimists see Wieskamp as the savior. I’m sure he is good but as a Freshmen he won’t be able to do enough and Iowa won’t sniff the tourney.

Sadly in year 10 we’ll be keeping our fingers crossed that Iowa gets a tourney bid.

The twitter threads on this topic are maddening. "Iowa is the 8-9th ranked program in the league now. Shouldn't expect more than that consistently, Dr Tom's results were average." blah blah blah...

Pisses me off more than it should.

 

[Shpadoinkle]

His teams are pretty good offensively.

Due to some key players making big leaps (and Marble, White, Uthoff, and Jok look like Fran's player-development outliers, offensively), or due to him being a good offensive coach?

On one hand, his teams do score a lot. On the other, they often have droughts, and have trouble scoring unless the star player is "on" (which could be said for a lot of teams, sure, but how often did we see sets of "throw it to Dev/Aaron/Jarrod/Pete and see what happens" or "oh shit no one can score so somebody do something"?)

Adjusted Offense

2012: 39th
2013: 58th
2014: 5th
2015: 30th
2016: 25th
2017: 43rd
2018: 52nd


One outstanding year, two good-ish years, and -- if you're in the Big Ten and you're rep is an "offense" guy -- four just ok years. A Power Five coach who really is an offensive guru had better consistently be in the top 25 in adjusted offense, year in and year out. Otherwise, he's just ok.

I think Fran's rep as an offensive coach comes more from the contrast between his teams' scoring and their defensive inadequacies than from the quality and efficiency of what actually happens on the floor.

How does that fare compared to other big ten teams? Just curious, as there is more defense played in the big ten than other leagues.

 

[douglasbader]

Joe will be an upgrade over our current SG but absent a guard that can penetrate past the three point line I don't see how next year improves. Its not like Connor can do that either.

As has been pointed out 50 times already, name the PG that was able to penetrate past the three point line under Fran in the past 5 years when his teams averaged 22 wins and went to the NCAA Tournament 3 times winning 2 games and the NIT 2 times getting to the finals.

I hate that we won't have a penetrating PG, but acting like that is a prerequisite for Iowa to not suck is simply not true. They have been good without it.

 

[hawkeyealum]

MG was better at it than bohannon. Not by much but he could get to the rim and blow the layup from time to time.

We also had players that gave a shit.

 

[Revolver]

Joe will be an upgrade over our current SG but absent a guard that can penetrate past the three point line I don't see how next year improves. Its not like Connor can do that either.

As has been pointed out 50 times already, name the PG that was able to penetrate past the three point line under Fran in the past 5 years when his teams averaged 22 wins and went to the NCAA Tournament 3 times winning 2 games and the NIT 2 times getting to the finals.

I hate that we won't have a penetrating PG, but acting like that is a prerequisite for Iowa to not suck is simply not true. They have been good without it.

Not having that, plus not being able to defend the position is a problem.

 

[hawkeyealum]

yeah Its more a problem on defense I guess

 

[douglasbader]

Joe will be an upgrade over our current SG but absent a guard that can penetrate past the three point line I don't see how next year improves. Its not like Connor can do that either.

As has been pointed out 50 times already, name the PG that was able to penetrate past the three point line under Fran in the past 5 years when his teams averaged 22 wins and went to the NCAA Tournament 3 times winning 2 games and the NIT 2 times getting to the finals.

I hate that we won't have a penetrating PG, but acting like that is a prerequisite for Iowa to not suck is simply not true. They have been good without it.

Not having that, plus not being able to defend the position is a problem.

Please point out the defensive gurus that played PG for Fran in the prior 5 years while Iowa averaged 22 wins and went to the NCAA Tournament 3 times.

 

[douglasbader]

MG was better at it than bohannon. Not by much but he could get to the rim and blow the layup from time to time.

We also had players that gave a shit.

Mike Gesell was horrendous at dribble penetration and even worse at feeding the post.

 

[hawkeyealum]

Not guru but competent. Clemmons was a pretty good defender and Mike wasn't nearly as bad as bohannon.

Marble was also better than anyone currently on iowa backcourt roster

 

[hawkeyealum]

MG was better at it than bohannon. Not by much but he could get to the rim and blow the layup from time to time.

We also had players that gave a shit.

Mike Gesell was horrendous at dribble penetration and even worse at feeding the post.

Of this there is no doubt. I also said better than bohannon which isn't much of a stretch.

 

[douglasbader]

I for once don't really want to get in a really long argument. They are having a really disappointing bad year. It is the first bad year since Fran has been here in 8 years. The mix of the players is off and Connor being out hurts. I get why everyone is dejected and pissed off. In some ways, I think it is a good thing as it will put Fran to a decision on where he wants his career to go, especially with his kids about to play for him.

They thankfully will get him back and add a Top 40 near 5* level player that can shoot, rebound and defend at the SG and SF position. If they clean up the roster, there is a very good chance this team will bounce right back. There are countless examples of it happening, especially in basketball.

 

[Shpadoinkle]

It's about ball movement and player movement. These guys throw the ball into the post and then stand around and watch (if the pass actually makes it in). That clogs the lanes, makes it easy for opposing defenses to double and makes it difficult for the post players to find an open man if they can't get to the rim.

 

[douglasbader]

We also are really, really fucking young. The 4th youngest team in the entire country.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

Defensive guard play is the biggest issue. Second is turnovers, where a penetrating pg could help, but many of them come from impatience, overconfidence and all around idiocy from every position.

 

[Mo T]

We also are really, really fucking young. The 4th youngest team in the entire country.

Where do you see this? I'm seeing 40th or so. Some younger teams:

Tennessee
Texas
Michigan
Auburn
Miss State

 

[Revolver]

We also are really, really fucking young. The 4th youngest team in the entire country.

 

[Verbal]

MG was better at it than bohannon. Not by much but he could get to the rim and blow the layup from time to time.

We also had players that gave a shit.

Mike Gesell was horrendous at dribble penetration and even worse at feeding the post.

I just spent 15 minutes trying to find the clip of his drive to the basket in the closing seconds against Florida State where he wound up firing it off the back of the backboard and gave FSU a chance to win it. Appears it was a Vine that has been lost to eternity.

 

[Tugboat]

Jon Miller and Kakert say he's exceeded their (clearly very low) expectations every year. This is the first step back.

Ok.

Unfortunately I don’t see this ending well for Fran. He won’t/can’t recruit a PG due to his kid taking that spot.

HaLo optimists see Wieskamp as the savior. I’m sure he is good but as a Freshmen he won’t be able to do enough and Iowa won’t sniff the tourney.

Sadly in year 10 we’ll be keeping our fingers crossed that Iowa gets a tourney bid.

But doesn't fall into some logic-eluding meltdown.

I have got no faith in Fran right now. And yet I don't want him fired. But I don't really think we've seen anything consistently from him or his teams to make it reasonable to think next year will somehow be better.

I don’t want him fired either. I’m good giving him a mulligan this year.

Crazy that Iowa fans are resigned to the fact that Fran can’t get a legit P5 point guard in year 8.

I’m fine with Connor getting time but he wouldn’t play much at another P5. HaLo clings to him only because there are no other options.

A healthy Jok at the 2 last year wasn’t enough to get them into the NCAA tourney. A freshman Wieskamp isn’t going to do more than Senior Jok.

With that said, the defense is usually awful.

Hope I’m wrong, but they aren’t sniffing the tourney next year.

 

[eclone]

We also are really, really fucking young. The 4th youngest team in the entire country.

Where do you see this? I'm seeing 40th or so. Some younger teams:

Tennessee
Texas
Michigan
Auburn
Miss State

KenPom has them at 333 out of 351 for Experience, after last year being 345 out of 351.

 

[Talkin' Goat]

MG was better at it than bohannon. Not by much but he could get to the rim and blow the layup from time to time.

We also had players that gave a shit.

Mike Gesell was horrendous at dribble penetration and even worse at feeding the post.

I just spent 15 minutes trying to find the clip of his drive to the basket in the closing seconds against Florida State where he wound up firing it off the back of the backboard and gave FSU a chance to win it. Appears it was a Vine that has been lost to eternity.

You have to watch a fucking ad first, but here you go:

 

[KingJames]

Lol at people thinking Connor would drastically help this team. And lol at people arguing that a penetrating pg or wing isn't that big of a deal. Because getting to the rim, setting up big men for easier shots, setting up wide open 3s and drawing fouls aren't important at all.

Bottom line is this. Iowa has far too many crackers. Plain and simple.

 

[douglasbader]

We also are really, really fucking young. The 4th youngest team in the entire country.

Where do you see this? I'm seeing 40th or so. Some younger teams:

Tennessee
Texas
Michigan
Auburn
Miss State

KenPom has them at 333 out of 351 for Experience, after last year being 345 out of 351.

Well, there you go. They are one of the 18 least experienced teams in the country.

They are really young.

 

[douglasbader]

Lol at people thinking Connor would drastically help this team. And lol at people arguing that a penetrating pg or wing isn't that big of a deal. Because getting to the rim, setting up big men for easier shots, setting up wide open 3s and drawing fouls aren't important at all.

Bottom line is this. Iowa has far too many crackers. Plain and simple.

Yeah, something nobody said followed by a Howler like level of stupidity!

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

Mike Gesell was horrendous at dribble penetration and even worse at feeding the post.

I just spent 15 minutes trying to find the clip of his drive to the basket in the closing seconds against Florida State where he wound up firing it off the back of the backboard and gave FSU a chance to win it. Appears it was a Vine that has been lost to eternity.

You have to watch a fucking ad first, but here you go:

Lololololololololol

It has been a while since we have had a great point guard...Dean Oliver?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

The idea that a consensus 4* versatile guard wouldn’t help anyone else is objectively retarded. Not to mention one that plays with an edge like Connor.

People hate him because he’s white with the last name McCaffery.

 

[Thomas Wolsey]

The idea that a consensus 4* versatile guard wouldn’t help anyone else is objectively retarded. Not to mention one that plays with an edge like Connor.

People hate him because he’s white with the last name McCaffery.

Joe isn’t the savior, but he can help us defensively, and Connor will obviously help cut down turnovers

 

[shoot-the-three]

It has been said numerous times but this team is hard to watch, yet I watch every game I can.

If they would compete on defense and take better care of the ball I could stomach everything else. It amazes me how bad this team is at trying to feed the post. I know the announcers said that this is becoming a lost art but for fucks sake it isn't that hard. And I blame Fran for the team playing defense like it is optional. As much as I hate his hockey line substitution bullshit if the five guys coming in played their asses off on defense I could understand it.

 

[Tugboat]

The idea that a consensus 4* versatile guard wouldn’t help anyone else is objectively retarded. Not to mention one that plays with an edge like Connor.

People hate him because he’s white with the last name McCaffery.

Nobody hates him. This “hate” you speak of is people simply acknowledging that he isn’t the difference between this year’s horrible team becoming a possible tourney team next year.

He’s not a true PG and Fran sure as shit isn’t going to recruit over him. I’m fine with him and think eventually he’ll be a significant contributor but he’s not the missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[Orestes]

The idea that a consensus 4* versatile guard wouldn’t help anyone else is objectively retarded. Not to mention one that plays with an edge like Connor.

People hate him because he’s white with the last name McCaffery.

Joe isn’t the savior, but he can help us defensively, and Connor will obviously help cut down turnovers

Right now it’s har to believe the improvement they will provide will only mean we lose by a couple to Rutgers instead of by an embarrassing margin. I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see Connor and a freshman somehow improving our defense, toughness, and intelligence.

And, again, we should probably factor in some kind of unexplainable funk that costs us two or three games we should win - a good ol’ stretch of Fran specials, if you will.

Again, I don’t want Fran fired for some reason. But I have zero faith in his ability to get this roster to a respectable team next year, and don’t really understand where anyone’s optimism comes from.

Maybe I’d be okay with him surprising us all by taking a job with a program in the WAC and calling it a step up?

 

[Tugboat]

Let’s not forget that the Big 10 is dog shit this year and won’t/can’t be as bad next year.

 

[douglasbader]

Way too many have gone completely overboard now. I fully support Fran going forward to spite the dumbfucks that have crawled out of the woodwork and simply can't see any way that Iowa possibly improves or is good again.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

If you can’t see how Connor and Joe improve things I don’t know what to tell you.

At the very least they aren’t lazy dumbfucks.

 

[Berzerkenpas]

How does that fare compared to other big ten teams? Just curious, as there is more defense played in the big ten than other leagues.

Not comprehensive, but enough for conclusions -- 2012-2017

Ohio State:

6
14
103
22
138
60

Indiana:

4
2
126
8
6
27

Purdue:

10
98
119
61
19
24

Michigan:

19
1
3
67
30
4

Michigan State

17
29
13
14
2
58

Wisconsin

25
73
4
1
89
33


So, compared to the most efficient teams in the conference, (I didn't look at Maryland), Fran has been more consistent -- but only one year in the top 10, no years in the top 20, one year at 25.

For the Big Ten, Iowa's offense has been consistently ok -- not good.

 

[Tugboat]

If you can’t see how Connor and Joe improve things I don’t know what to tell you.

At the very least they aren’t lazy dumbfucks.

So that’s now the bar now? Improvememt on being one of the worst teams in a shitty Big 10?

Maybe they’ll win four conference games next year!

 

[douglasbader]

If you can’t see how Connor and Joe improve things I don’t know what to tell you.

At the very least they aren’t lazy dumbfucks.

So that’s now the bar now? Improvememt on being one of the worst teams in a shitty Big 10?

Maybe they’ll win four conference games next year!

Iowa totally has no chance to be good again under Fran. Adding a Top 40 SG and a Top 150 PG won't do anything but let them lose to Rutgers by a few points.

You called it Tugboat.

 

[StinkyMcFadden]

Iowa totally has no chance to be good again under Fran. Adding a Top 40 SG and a Top 150 PG won't do anything but let them lose to Rutgers by a few points.

You called it Tugboat.

Who is the top 150 PG?

 

[douglasbader]

Iowa totally has no chance to be good again under Fran. Adding a Top 40 SG and a Top 150 PG won't do anything but let them lose to Rutgers by a few points.

You called it Tugboat.

Who is the top 150 PG?

DYOFR