**Official Midwest Region First Round Game Thread (12) Richmond vs (5) Iowa 2:10PM tru-TV

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Russell Ziske

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kenos said:
I'm not so sure. He landed Lohaus, and would have landed Lorenzen (also McD AA), but a lot of his other guys were not Ravelling-level recruits. I loved Boyle and Brookins and Carfino and Banks and Payne, but none of them were difference makers. One of the many reasons he left for Arizona was to tap into the West Coast talent base.

Lute would have made some 16s and maybe a couple more 8s, but that 1980 run was the outlier. Unless he broke out Ravelling's bag, he wasn't going to bring national championship-level talent to Iowa.
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He was a hall of fame coach & was going to win, wether it was here, or Arizona. Same with Miller & Oregon State.
 
Stu Beagle

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I don’t remember ever seeing a Wilson ball all year, Iowa or not. You always see teams use the ball they have a contract with.
 
ClintWalker

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kenos said:
I'm not so sure. He landed Lohaus, and would have landed Lorenzen (also McD AA), but a lot of his other guys were not Ravelling-level recruits. I loved Boyle and Brookins and Carfino and Banks and Payne, but none of them were difference makers. One of the many reasons he left for Arizona was to tap into the West Coast talent base.

Lute would have made some 16s and maybe a couple more 8s, but that 1980 run was the outlier. Unless he broke out Ravelling's bag, he wasn't going to bring national championship-level talent to Iowa.
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Actually he was just starting to attract blue chip talent, he almost landed Isiah Thomas finishing a close second to Indiana. Terry Cummings was thought to be coming to Iowa before committing vey late to DePaul. Both Payne and Stokes were prep AA's. It would have been a great ride if Lute had stayed in Iowa city.
 
kenos

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ClintWalker said:
Actually he was just starting to attract blue chip talent, he almost landed Isiah Thomas finishing a close second to Indiana. Terry Cummings was thought to be coming to Iowa before committing vey late to DePaul. Both Payne and Stokes were prep AA's. It would have been a great ride if Lute had stayed in Iowa city.
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I remember all those guys (I hoped Payne would be better, but it turned out that having Dennis Douglas to get him the ball kind of mattered).

Finishing 2nd? He didn't land them.
 
kenos

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Russell Ziske said:
Just couldn’t attract good enough recruits to succeed at Iowa, despite succceeding.
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it's almost like pulling elite talent away from their home-state schools is tough, and Iowa has a small talent base*.



*unless the home state school completely sucks
 
TurdBurgler

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I remember the season where everyone on the team quit except Cully Payne who was out there battling for the criminal in the big ten tournament. Yesterday sucked, but no fucking way am I getting rid of Fran. I have 0% faith that we would replace him with someone better. We just aren't that program.
 
Squat Cobbler

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It would be nice to keep a list of teams that use the Wilson ball for their home games just to see how they do in the tournament. I believe Auburn, Wisconsin, and Kansas use Wilson. I found articles that indicate Wisconsin and Auburn are the only Big Ten and SEC teams in the tournament that use Wilson. Creighton might as well.
 
Thomas Wolsey

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TurdBurgler said:
I remember the season where everyone on the team quit except Cully Payne who was out there battling for the criminal in the big ten tournament. Yesterday sucked, but no fucking way am I getting rid of Fran. I have 0% faith that we would replace him with someone better. We just aren't that program.
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There might be 20-25 coaches in college better than Fran. 90% of which would expect better access to recruiting, and the rest would be tough to convince to come to IC.
 
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kenos said:
it's almost like pulling elite talent away from their home-state schools is tough, and Iowa has a small talent base*.



*unless the home state school completely sucks
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Good point. You just don’t see Chicago kids playing anywhere outside the state & never have. Depaul was close to the equivalent of Gonzaga, during that era.
 
eclone

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B19Rob said:
If I remember correctly, he only had his left foot on the ground, outside the charge circle. His right foot was almost directly underneath the hoop but not on the ground. He was moving, not in a good defensive position, and flopped like a bitch. And the ref rewarded him. Fuck that call.
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The circle restriction only applies to secondary defenders. He was a direct on the ball defender
 
Gushawk

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Wonder if we were in the mix for Mark Aguirre (sp?) too.
 
Hawkeye_Pierce

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kenos said:
it's almost like pulling elite talent away from their home-state schools is tough, and Iowa has a small talent base*.



*unless the home state school completely sucks
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I think Iowa having a small talent base is kind of a lame excuse. If the tournament has taught us anything, it's that there's a shit ton of hoops talent in the U.S. (and beyond) and only so many 'blue blood' programs.

Some of those dudes playing for Saint Peters wouldn't look overmatched in the BT. Lots of players like that in every tournament (and the NBA). The little PG for Richmond is a good example too. It's probably a matter of how dirty you want to get and I don't think Fran plays that game. Seems like he'd rather take a shot at a high character kid who will need to be developed versus the 'finished product' who comes with baggage.
 
Hawkeye_Pierce

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Russell Ziske said:
Good point. You just don’t see Chicago kids playing anywhere outside the state & never have. Depaul was close to the equivalent of Gonzaga, during that era.
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What? You're talking about 20-30 years ago, right? Most of the top talent in IL doesn't stay in state and hasn't for years.
 
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Hawkeye_Pierce said:
I think Iowa having a small talent base is kind of a lame excuse. If the tournament has taught us anything, it's that there's a shit ton of hoops talent in the U.S. (and beyond) and only so many 'blue blood' programs.

Some of those dudes playing for Saint Peters wouldn't look overmatched in the BT. Lots of players like that in every tournament (and the NBA). The little PG for Richmond is a good example too. It's probably a matter of how dirty you want to get and I don't think Fran plays that game. Seems like he'd rather take a shot at a high character kid who will need to be developed versus the 'finished product' who comes with baggage.
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Are you saying we aren’t willing to get dirty to steal recruits from Richmond?
 
kenos

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Russell Ziske said:
Good point. You just don’t see Chicago kids playing anywhere outside the state & never have. Depaul was close to the equivalent of Gonzaga, during that era.
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Of course some top IL kids go out of state -- but traditionally they go to programs with higher prestige than Iowa. Ronnie was under the radar when Lute got him.

(man, Ravelling had some deep pockets)
 
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I’m not saying Raveling did or didn’t play the money game with recruits…..but, is there anything to back that up? Keep in mind the amount of talent coming out of the Detroit area, back then, was ridiculous.
 
kenos

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Russell Ziske said:
I’m not saying Raveling did or didn’t play the money game with recruits…..but, is there anything to back that up? Keep in mind the amount of talent coming out of the Detroit area, back then, was ridiculous.
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Illinois, MSU, and UM were all stacked for a while. McCants to Purdue and Horton to Iowa because they would have sat at Illinois, and Marble would have been behind other McDs AAs at UM.
 
AZmessDAWG

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Rolo Tomassi Bot said:
So when I suggested Iowa might suffer from a letdown, and was jumped on by half a dozen of Halo's experts, then .... oh, never mind.
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Rolo I’m not gonna spaz out. I think we have different definitions of letdown.
 
AZmessDAWG

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The Full Monte said:
I don’t want to repeat a bunch of shit, so I’ll just add this. There are a lot of advantages to the autonomy and freedom Fran gives guys. His guys LOVE him. But the thing this staff really misses is someone that can gauge where a bunch of young kids are at emotionally and speak to that when it’s a problem. Call it lack of confidence, call it playing tight…this team was “off.” And that’s not something this staff excels at identifying and overcoming
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His guys never lack confidence. Just like making shots is contagious, so is missing them. I’m not sure there are any coaches that could push that magic button to fix them emotionally.
 
AZmessDAWG

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kenos said:
I remember all those guys (I hoped Payne would be better, but it turned out that having Dennis Douglas to get him the ball kind of mattered).

Finishing 2nd? He didn't land them.
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Bruce*
 
JR Hawks

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AZmess said:
His guys never lack confidence. Just like making shots is contagious, so is missing them. I’m not sure there are any coaches that could push that magic button to fix them emotionally.
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You think Fran's Iowa teams have generally been mentally tough?
 
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Elite 8 loss to UNLV in 1987 was the most depressed I’ve ever been after a game.

I didn’t give a crap after yesterday’s game. It just is what it is. A classic turd.
 
Bovert

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HzzzHawk said:
Elite 8 loss to UNLV in 1987 was the most depressed I’ve ever been after a game.

I didn’t give a crap after yesterday’s game. It just is what it is. A classic turd.
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Same here. Up 16 at the half? Something like that. And for some reason the loss to NW St. in 2006 was the 2nd most depressed I have been. For some reason I had convinced myself that team could make a deep deep run. I'm not smart
 
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KitKatApples

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I mean for anyone that actually wants Fran fired, who exactly do you think we will get that's better?
 
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